BlenderArtists Forum Suggestion/Complaint?

My god. I’ve seen too many people complain about “noobs” who post up WIP games that don’t have a lot of progress. Then you get the ones (like me) who complain about the complainers. There’s even a member (not going to mention the name), that is so fed up, he just copies and pastes the same message like a two year old for a bunch of progress that he feels isn’t up to his standard.

This could all be gone if we just had a couple seperate forums for WIP, Game Demos, and Finished Games instead of it being crammed into one forum. That way, people would care less that the countless WIP don’t get finished, because the finished games will be focused on a seperate forum.

Why does the game engine have so little sub-forums compared to the rest of BlenderArtists. There are a lot of us who only use the game engine.

Give me your thoughts and hopefully a BA admin stumbles upon this.

Maybe:
GAME ENGINE
-Game support and discussion
-Game Resources
-WIP Games
-Finished Games/Demos
-Team looking for members/Member looking for teams

I’m trying, guys, really I am. Please be patient. Eventually I will be able to contact our admin and we will get the new forums.

Maybe mods could even choose the WIPs that they think are ACTUALLY progressing and are serious, and put them into a special forum. Kind of like the mods choose the stills they like form the finished projects forum and put them into the galleries. It could be like “Hot game projects” or something. I guess that would be a helluva lot of work on the mods part though deciding which games are worthy.

Maybe mods could even choose the WIPs that they think are ACTUALLY progressing and are serious, and put them into a special forum. Kind of like the mods choose the stills they like form the finished projects forum and put them into the galleries. It could be like “Hot game projects” or something. I guess that would be a helluva lot of work on the mods part though deciding which games are worthy.

I reckon it wouldn’t be so much work if you nominated your project or something.

I haven’t been on this forum very long, but as an artist I would never dream of putting up a WIP. I like to show the finished product first.:smiley:

There are usually only 2 reasons to put up a WIP.

  1. The artist is overly excited to show his work and in most cases very young.
  2. The artist is less confident in his ability and needs peer approval to keep going with the project.

Either way I do agree there should be a separate forum for WIP.

I find it very dis-heartening to know that others’ complain about people posting WIP’s. There is always some form of knowledge to be gained by looking at others’ work finished or unfinished. In most cases the complainer is usually jealous. LOL.:eyebrowlift2:

Here is an exercise: If you know any writers and they are working on something, ask them to preview it. 9 times out of 10 they will say NO. Reason: They don’t like to showcase unfinished work. In my experience 6 out of 10 artists are just that true artists and will not preview work of any kind until finished.

So have a little patience and you might learn something in the process.:ba:

zach009
I do agree in some way (first sentence, but I admit we are wrong in lot of cases), but you forgot a lot of positive reasons why would an artist have interest in creating a Wip thread :

  1. The opportunity for the artist to build a community around his project and make it popular before his project is available (to gain respect of a community, to build a tribe around values, to build a customer base if the project is commercial, etc…).
    The first impression is important so he should provide some great content from the very beginning, keeping in mind that the effect of a finished product is multiplied when the final release is expected / compared to a “no preview no info release”.

  2. Often, in an artist’s mind, a project is never good enough to be shown. By creating a thread and making his project public, he puts himself in the position where he has to provide nice results step by step (productivity gain, self-motivation). Also, it is some way to keep track of the progress he has made if he doesn’t do it another way already.
    And finally, I think that when an artist doesn’t know when to stop it’s due to a lack of strong artistic decisions and state of mind. This can also be seen as a lack of professionalism (non personal projects). That’s my opinion, not a rule.

  3. Even if artists tend to be humble, by sharing their work in progress they also share some of their experience and knowledges.
    I wouldn’t say that this is an obligation (it is not) but it is important and also rewarding.
    Why do we like to follow great Wip threads? Because we learn a lot.
    Sharing is important, this is a complete way of thinking, and everyone has something to share.
    I don’t think (at all!) that the template I provided was so great, but I still thought someone would enjoy it and I released it. I still believe that it’s a good thing I didn’t keep it for myself, even if I was (and still am) thinking that it was not good enough to be shown.

In my experience 6 out of 10 artists are just that true artists and will not preview work of any kind until finished.
I couldn’t find any definition of what is a true artist, and what is not :slight_smile:
We put in the “artist” category a lot of activities/disciplines/talents that can’t be put in other ones.
I think that’s a bit risky to throw general ideas like this?
“Artists” are a lot of very different persons and I believe that no rule can’t be made so easily.
Your experience is completely different than mine, and than others, and I hope readers will understand it that way.

If you know any writers and they are working on something, ask them to preview it. 9 times out of 10 they will say NO.
That’s the case of the artist working for himself (personal projects that don’t have commercial purpose).
Only 1 or 2 of those 9/10 will raise their level until they can be published, because no partner would ever sign a contract of xxxxx€/$ without seeing anything first.

There are, in the professional life, far more artists showing progress of their work and that do make a living with their skills, than the ones that don’t preview anything.

Tim Burton do, J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter) does, Picasso did, Mozart did, James Brown also.
If you play with somebody’s interests ($$$$$), you’d better have to provide the best content whenever you can.
Unless you are in a position of monopoly/niche by being dominant and/or unique. And that’s it definitely not 9 on 10.

I think that PlantPerson and other moderators know well the problems on the forums, and we can see that they take those complains seriously.
That would be better to wait, now, although I understand well that filling complains and trying to find solutions can be relieving :slight_smile:

That’s the case of the artist working for himself (personal projects that don’t have commercial purpose).

This is obviously what I am talking about.

A true artist doesn’t work for a corporation. Anybody with good computer knowledge and a program can be an “artist”. If you can’t draw it first by hand then you are not an artist in my opinion.

When it becomes your job it stops being art.:cool:

WIP threads are useful to get feedback when the artist is experimenting something new s/he hasn’t done before and from where s/he can learn how the people reacts to their work. Though, an artist with a bit of common sense would work enough to give a good first impression (and get meaningful feedback) before starting the thread

Yes, because we all know that CGI is as easy as this http://karincoma.deviantart.com/art/KariNComA-CG-tutorial-xD-12764980 :wink:

Then I suppose the Sistine Chapel ceiling wouldn’t be art. With Michelangelo being under the patrongae of the pope, the equivalent at the time of working for a corporation.

You have to draw it first to be art. So a piece of sculpture made in life class isn’t a piece of art?

Total Bollocks mate.

Richard

interesting thread… I agreeing with some of you think kids and teens (mostly not adults) make a thread in the WIP/Finished/Demo part of the thread because they are excited from learning blender, and they think they are really good, and it’s time to post an idea, get feedback, helpers, and tend to not think that people don’t like to help someone with no work :/.

Yes, I am a kid, and I was excited to to post up my idea, and tell people what I’m going to do for it, get a team, work together like we were professionals, that made me really want to make a thread. I have only made 1 thread on the Demo/Finished/WIP, and that is my only seruise game that I am getting far with. When I first made the thread, I only had a screenshot and a bunch of information, I didn’t like to post models that had been done and updating every single day, I liked to post pretty decent updates, and I think that’s what Work In Progress means, not every single model you make, every single piece of logic you made, and every single new cool feature or whatever. I think the WIP is suppose to be the progress on the GAME not the models, not the logic, the actual GAME. Updates should only be on the gameplay, or your major logic updates,

Example:
I made a save.laod system, the character can move now with these controls, we have enemies, and you can shoot the with the gun with the mouse! [Post a screenshot] and maybe a .blend for the people to see.
But not a .exe, because only windows can open it and play, the .blend…

an update shouldn’t be:
Ok, I made the texture for the menu…

Now, don’t get me wrong, I have done those kind of updates before on my game, but that’s because everybody else were bumping there threads with small updates, that my thread kept on being sent down, so what am I suppose to do? It’s a bumping compition on the forum… My game is almost on the 3rd page and people haven’t made a decent update in a long time… Now there are some games that are good, and update every so often to post an update and those are the onces I like to see because they know what an update is on the WIP/Demo/Finished Games are.

btw: threads shouldn’t be used as a chat… You know what should be used as a chat? A CHAT! Not the forums! If you want tips and feedback, then update your game like once everyweek, and show people what you have and they’ll crit but not every single day…

All this comes back to not having a lot of progress because people are updating the ‘project’ every single day with almost nothing to show… Complainers don’t like this, and this is where the flames come.

I want new commers to the forum to read this,
Linkxgl

Bollocks? Really?! First off, bloke. I am not talking about sculpting. I am talking about CGI. Don’t add things to what others say just to twist the conversation into your favor. Michelangelo was a fantastic artist and didn’t work for a corporation or the pope(Satan). He was Commissioned to do that painting because of his tremendous ability and had complete creative control. He painted. Hence, he drew with paint. Using a computer program to create a picture is not art. The concept behind the picture may be artistic. Like I said anyone with good computer knowledge and a good program can be an “artist”.

What is this becoming, a flame thread…? Talking about this borders on pointlessness… if people want to make useless WIPs let them… no one is forcing people to read them and no-one is forcing people to read complaints from the complainers about the complainers ;-). The good WIPs get rated so you can see what is worth looking at.

I do like the idea of a finished game/demo section. Would be nice advert for blenders capabilities… all the completed entries for the competitions could be posted there… other than that… I don’t think there is much point wasting energy getting all bothered about it with off-topic discussions about art… feel free to start a thread about in the off-topic section of the forum and duke it out there.

The admins do a good job here at blender artists and they know what the problems are.

I don’t think the problem is the fact if you read them or not, it’s more of a problem that promising projects get less attention, and get pushed back on the thread list quicker because of the cluttering of new projects, and when a project hits the second page because of a week or so not updating, it doesn’t really matter if it’s rated or not.

But that’s beside the point, I would like to see these sub forums too, but moderaters are quite similair to humans I think :stuck_out_tongue: so we should give them some time. (I have faith in thou plantperson :slight_smile: )

Another thing I would like to see, is that the hypothetic new wip forums don’t end up as a discussion board between members of the project, ofcourse it’s okay to discuss certain concepts, but I would rather see the main discussion be moved to a google site or something, and have some1 the teamleader for example, update the thread every now and then with the progress :slight_smile:

but that’s just my humble opinion.

Yeah Zach imo you go totally owned by Richard there.

Any person that knows the basics of how to use a pencil can be an “artist”.

And anybody with an internet connection can voice his/her opinion :slight_smile:

But this is not the problem.
There should probably be a rule against using the WIP forum for team communication
random chit-chat and blogging.

This whole subject is like beating a dead horse.

Pretty funny but not neccesarily true. I think we should seperate finished games and WIP because - where are all the old finished games that were amazing? They are at the back of the WIP/Game Demos/Finished Games forum. Not a lot of people know about them. If they were moved to the finished games, there would be more focus on them, mostley because people are interested in finished games, and IMO, there are a lot more WIP then finished games. So less searching.