Brain paste for Physics and armatures

Coding Python Support
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A bit messy. But just a few ideas of the Proposal I was thinking of createing for Blender and it’s aramtures. Any help is welcome. As I am not a coder just a thinker.

Part one but this really is only the first and last draft towards the idea. Images are next.
It is quick. And it is method. With roots in myth, or gone history.

I am being cryptic here as I wrote this down very quickly. I am hoping that somebody can understand it so far. I will make mock images for it some time later. But for now I might as well it flamed or ignored with my silly ideas. Minus math.

Aw math. How it will not stick to my head.

World Theta Physics: = An item or mesh goes towards what it is made of. : Water to water. Earth to earth, winds to wind, fire to air.
Example. Fire is born of oxygen therefore fire is air. Metal and skin is also of earth. Water lives underneath earth.

Everything has it’s own pull. As attraction is with it’s own pull. Never to stay still. Bodies wobble, earth moves, wind sways, water evaporates. Always moving.

It all has a pull of 0.20 .

Armature: = Is a chain link with no control and full control. Both at once. Never separate.
If chain of armature is linked at a pull of 0.20 then a hit over 0.20 with gravity as all chains also = gravity two. And all pull then at 0.30.

So . A link of armatures hold on to the joints with 0.20 they will pull each other. Stretch method.

Control though is commanded to a root of the bone path. Control is only To deplete or add to the amount of said lack of control. Control that was 0.20 will go up to = 0.40-0.90 and still has link pull until 0.99 range.

Hair/Fur:= 1 cord or line = 1000 rendered gradient OpenGL render outline of math.

It 3d view A line is surrounded by a grey filled outline of OpenGL that represents the shape of the hair stack. Math divides the method of space and clump. Has Theta physics of movement. Line shapes the Out line. Gradient decides the fade at the tips.

Cloth is:= Not going to work for nice looks.
Cloth depends on gravity. Lines are formed when hitting gravity. It’s self is gravity. But far to many meshes need to be subdivided .

So it needs to start with control breaks lines as is nature. Break lines will then form the creases when hitting gravity.

Mesh is not to pass any vertices and faces. Cloth can also have an extra field of invisible effect or take up space to fix the thickness.

Muscle = Not done. But so far… Muscles stretch and contract. They are also overlapping is groups. repositions the mesh in a squishy swooshy form.

Walking ! Simple. ! Force is shot in a direction. Body follows to not fall down.

Small basic force makes a walk. Links jip. Major force = makes head and body as counter weight and largest gravity pull towards ground. Arms follow through to stop fall.

Other wise. If force is first placed in foot and leg it will make links sprit or leap.

Jump is from the feet. But can be put into the fingers.

A point of origin in the body is the for-runniner to detirmine the outcome of the landing of the force.

^v^ fun fun fishys fun. it is what was thought.

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A bit messy. Any help is welcome. As I am not a coder just a thinker.

macuser?

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guilty

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Update . Images

still messy and lacking of style but eh…
http://www.aprilcolo.com/oh/mat/mat.html

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yeah right, and how does it know what to do when you push it? Which arm/leg does it swing forward?

The theta physics part seems completely and uselessly esoteric.

I think you should leave the cloth topic alone. Anything you could add to it wouldn’t make it 1% as good as all the already freely available documents on that subject.

I know you want to help, but this just wastes time.

Martin

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you sure are fun. Grumpy a bit . But still fun. I can only hope that others will give another thoughtful view and insight. As currently I do not see anyone else trying to make a proposal for blenders future methods .

I will clean up the html later. But I will never stop. I will pay careful attention to never spam. But I will never stop. This is Open Source. A power only built by community support no matter what skills you have they are all needed and intertwined …

^v^

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you sure are fun. Grumpy a bit . But still fun. I can only hope that others will give another thoughtful view and insight. As currently I do not see anyone else trying to make a proposal for blenders future methods .

I will clean up the html later. But I will never stop. I will pay careful attention to never spam. But I will never stop. This is Open Source. A power only built by community support no matter what skills you have they are all needed and intertwined …

^v[1]
Hey, I wish someone would tell me when my ideas are crap, it would save me a lot of time.

I agree a lot with theeth on this one, except that I see no use for these things; they will always be too cumbersome.

In animating a human it is a lot easier to specify how it MOVES rather than the more abstract specfication of how it PUTS FORCES ONTO ITSELF AND THE ENVIRONMENT. Sure the result of the latter may be much more realistic, but humans can be fooled much easier by someone skilled in the first; having to animate someone standing counteracting the forces of their movement will not be what anyone defines as fun

I feel like scratching this rant, I am talking out of … places … again.

(please, we don’t understand how this could be useful, explain it better. You can also code it to prove us all wrong)

  1. /quote ↩︎

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[quote=“z3r0 d”"]

dam I wish I could… If somebody would just sit down with me and teach me. Otherwise it just never sticks to my brain when I try myself.

The method I had thought of was just to get it and everything around it to move a bit more. Just by little bits of physics. And the extra detial could be added after the first resolve of math and the pokeing.

Like say if you poked the model in the back to then jut forward just enough that it latently pulls it’s foot forward to stop from falling. Then after that it would replay just like over and over again untill you told it to recalulate. So then you could do some tweaking to create the rest of the walk. Or fall.

Now after during all of this the sholders, arms, hands, fingers, neck, and just about every joint has rotated on it’s own just a bit but not so major that it is out of your control and boxed effect looking.

See my point now ? Time saver. And more real, more fast .

Of course no matter what amount of time I put into writing these stupid ideas they are worthless unless somebody picks them up and codes them. But I was told that coders do not want money they want a chalenge . Well here is what I was instructed to do. I present a challenge. Make all that I can think of and more. I have a trillion thoughts swimming in my head. I just can not code. But I can talk. And think tirelessly without end.

Make what I can think and you will have the world … Ha ha h ha ah to far,…
But whatever… Just more thoughts to never see light.

Oh and it can be done. You are the coder you can make it. You have the power of language and math. You can do it. You just don’t want to.

I guess intergrated physics are not hard enough for ya…

But my agument then is the old one. The winey one. “The other program companys have it why don;t we” :smiley:

^v^ wishing for bouncey fish

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Like say if you poked the model in the back to then jut forward just enough that it latently pulls it’s foot forward to stop from falling.

unless you add artificial intelligence, I really don’t see how an animation system will “know” that it must raise it’s foot to avoid falling.

Of course no matter what amount of time I put into writing these stupid ideas they are worthless unless somebody picks them up and codes them.

they are also worthless unless you explain clearly (and I mean clearly so that others can understand, not just you).

But I was told that coders do not want money they want a chalenge .

That’s bullcrap. Offering a challenge or money isn’t everything.

I guess intergrated physics are not hard enough for ya…

you’re not talking about integrated physics, you’re talking about a magical system that would magically know how you want your character to be animated.

But my agument then is the old one. The winey one. “The other program companys have it why don;t we”

If you can show me a program that animates its character by kicking them in the butt and by using that water/air/earth mystic crap, I would be VERY surprised.

Also, by the way that you use the word OpenGL, it really looks like you don’t know what it stands for.

And you don’t hit gravity, you just can’t use the gravity word like this (unless you mean something COMPLETELY different).

Did you proof read your text? Some parts (and I’m being generous when I say parts) don’t make any sense at all.

Some very rare parts make sense, but it’s so evident that I wonder why you included that (example: “Mesh is not to pass any vertices and faces. Cloth can also have an extra field of invisible effect or take up space to fix the thickness.”)

Martin
PS: I’m starting to see a trend in your feature propositions:

  • You suggest something
  • People asks for precision and disagree with you on some point
  • You keep saying the same thing over and over without answering any of the former imprecisions
  • you back off by saying that it’s the coders fault if they don’t want to participate

This isn’t doing anything to increase your credibility.

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Youngbatcat wrote:

Like say if you poked the model in the back to then jut forward just enough that it latently pulls it’s foot forward to stop from falling. Then after that it would replay just like over and over again untill you told it to recalulate. So then you could do some tweaking to create the rest of the walk. Or fall.

What you are thinking of here is a humanoid walkcycle (as opposed to run/jump/fall/swim cycle) which would need specific targets to be set up in the rig initially, with the existing tools. Much like MakeHuman is for modelling, this would be for animation.

And it would only work for humanoid bipeds. What if the mesh and rig were for an ostrich (or an octopus).

And if the present setup (Armatures) were changed to handle this then how would you animate an octopus?

%<

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[quote=“theeth”]

This isn’t doing anything to increase your credibility.

Drat …

hmm.

I do not want to anger you anymore.

I will try this at a smaller pace. I was basing my idea from http://www.naturalmotion.com/pages/products.htm

But I do see how it could only be A.I. based. And that would take far to long to code and create without constant coding and planning. The octupus would be mostly squrimy and have it’s bones flap around. The mthod was just for all of the bones to rotate a bit. Not full dum dum effect no work kind of tool. Just enough to get away from the stone statue feeling if you do not put enough work into a animation.

The mystical theta physics were just studies of a way to break away from complex math that stalls most developers and their projects. Case in point, the ultimate reliance on Solid 2.0 for the game engine. ODE is really nice but I keep reading that solid needs to come back as most of the sensor actuator functions rely on Solid.

Of course solid can be removed. But it is taking so much time because the need for constant work from a tight nit team. Every developer here as I read is only able to help out in their free time.

Back to the theta thing. Water to water. Just like meta blobs, water makes puddles because it wants to be back with it’s own kind. And water falls sour to the ground as their is water underneath the ground. Earth to earth. metal, glass, skin, and anything wit physical tissue is apart of the earth. So naturally it all wants to hold on to it’s own kind. Air to air. Air floats, or files. But air bubbles in water rises as it wants to be back up it the sky. During it’s journey to the sky it collides with other bubbles to make a massive bubble.
I know that is sounds stupid and fantasy like. But it does resound well. And acts like true since facts but just from a different point of view. Besides Their is math CG animations. And their cartoon CG animations. This idea would suit the latter nicely.
Gravity could still be a factor. Just not so stringent.

Cloth. That will be more time. I to have read everything under the sun about it. It may never be correct. But Blender could start with something simple like making a mesh not stretch at all when vertices are pulled.
Example. A 3 foot by 6 foot flag laid out flat is a mesh plane. But press O key and pull a vertice to pull other vertices and it pulls like normal. But in this method it would not stretch it would just keep pulling the objects entire mesh until it is all being pulled. That way you could create folds with out distortion. Perfect for a pre-mapped and textured cloth item mesh, that then could be draped onto a model.

Physics could then be added later when some good souls tackle the major grunt work. But in why last bit for the wine. Other programs have had for years some small form of integrated physics for like simple items; ex: metaballs that slide, rolling ball on a plane, spinning on an axis. Simple stuff. Look at True space 3 . even it had some weird tool like that. So it is just two year hope from long ago that when Game engine came out their was talk that the game engine would be mixed into Blender render. So far no go. And is understandable.

I’m done. I am glad to comment further.

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yeah right, and how does it know what to do when you push it? Which arm/leg does it swing forward?

personally i think he wants the animanium rig. if anyoen could do that i’m all for it but i know i cant.

even then animanium doesn’t do the whole arm thing or leg thing i don’t think thats even possible with the current understanding of human nature. to do it you’d need:

  • personal orientation, are they right handed, left handed or abidexterous?
  • mind orientation, again right minded or left minded
  • convention, which arm or foot would be the best to bring forward
  • how close is the apendage to the ground
  • the varying speed of motion and the speed that the person can move
  • the development fo the muscle groups in the area thats being moved
  • the mindset of the person, if they are in a depressed state they might not want to catch themselves
  • etc.

thats just a small portion of what a human would need, an animal would have a similarly long amount of needed knowledge.

the whole theta physics is, no offense intended, crap. why would we do somethign liek that? isn’t it easier to define a ground and then have everythign go towards that? water would flow to the lowest possible place that i can and soemoen moving through water experiences less gravity due to bouyancy. in your way it sounds like in water they move faster because they are tryign to get to earth.

don’t even try cloth, like theeth said theres too many other souces that know the math behind it.

the whole hair thing is wrong and your going in the wrong direction.

the armature thing is wrong, armatures are meant to work like the marinette’s strings, the strings arn’t affected by gravity because they are the inbetween, being held up by the puppeteer and being held down by the puppet. i hope that makes sense to everyone.

MacBlender

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Ok skip the theta bit.

But what about the no strech mesh. Not dynamiac cloth. But just a mesh that will not distort when modeled and molded. It could mage good creases and folds.

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not really, cloth that doesn’t deform can’t crease or fold. fold are created by compression which in itself is a form of stretching. and a non-dynamic fold would look horrible because it wouldn’t have the math to fold in on itself or the objects aroudn it.

MacBlender

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Yes but that is math. Not art. So far if you model a textured mesh onto a model any streching of the cloth mesh will strech the UV texture and make that look horid.
At the very least this should be an accseable feature for modeling grooves and dents in cars and what not.

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no, if you stretch a mesh with a texture on it it works liek real cloth would and stretches the image, take a Tshirt with an image on it soem time and stretch the cloth, it will stretch the image on it like blender does. to do what you want we’d need a way to return the vertecies back to the original state.

MacBlender

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I do not understand. If you rotate a half of a mesh with a UV texture to make a fold it will looks folded. And keep makeing folds and it will look even more folded. Now in all of these folds they are ridged. But O key (name?) lets you soften these folds but it turn it strechs the mesh to and that leads to pixelations.
But the no strech method would just rotate the mesh into it’s self. Like a burito.

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When you fold cloth it stretches, any image or picture, even writing on cloth will stretch and deform as the cloth stretches and deforms. end of story, doesn’t matter if its rolled liek a burito or folded like a shirt, anything material and texture-wise on it will deform.

MacBlender

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Ok so what if there was a slider control to deside how far it will strech or not.

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I’m not angry, and you don’t want to see me angry.

I will try this at a smaller pace. I was basing my idea from http://www.naturalmotion.com/pages/products.htm

That looks kinda interesting, but like MacBlender said, this would have to be either highly specific or require a high number of user parameters. Might as well just animate the armature like you want it.

The mystical theta physics were just studies of a way to break away from complex math that stalls most developers and their projects.

Coding is math, there’s no way around it. You can’t tell a computer that water likes water and expect it to act accordingly unless you tells it how to acts first (which is math).

So it is just two year hope from long ago that when Game engine came out their was talk that the game engine would be mixed into Blender render. So far no go. And is understandable.

The game engine code is completely separate from the modeling and animating side of Blender. However, there’s a script to record the physics simulation of the game engine and transfer them to IPO. If you didn’t know already.

Martin