crazy times

General Forums Off-topic Chat
21

Ok then Harkyman, Israel is up against who then?
Since you know all then if your going to correct me on something I said, at least show your surperior intelligence.

If you’d rather use ‘State of Palestine’ then go ahead. My point can be made either way. Just an irrelevant error on my part.

Now ok, here’s my correction because I realized I slightly goofed. But my point can still be made with this info. But I’m sure since you already know all… u don’t need to read this part…

The Gaza strip and the West Bank are pretty much all that’s there of Palestine. And that’s only there because Israel was forced to give it to them. (and i’m not even sure if this is still true, gotta look it up and see if those are still there)
Which I’m still surprised they did that because Palestinians can’t even march or hold protest without Israel using LIVE AMMUNITION to stop the protests.

Israel keeps refusing to comply to hundreds of UN resolutions, hell… it’s all ISREAL.
They occupy other land by military force, disregarding international law.
They’re against black jews.
and lots more that I can’t remember at this moment. (bad memory half the time :stuck_out_tongue: )

The Palestinians have been under illegal occupation by Israel since like 1970 or so, and are denied basic rights.

and as for the Bush thing, IN MY OPINION(not IMO) he is a government puppet. But some good news is that some of his latest polls show that Americans are finally wising up and there’s less a chance he’ll be re-elected and start another war against another country claiming FALSE FACTS!
He wanted war with IRAQ because the puppet masters gave him false facts about IRAQ having weapons. They used Bush’s hate for Saddam to get that war going.
Unfortunately I believe getting Saddam out of power and giving Iraq back to the people is a good thing. But how it happened was just plain IDIOTIC!.

I guess one can’t have their cake and eat it too.

Those are my opinions. And is I re-read everything I put I see numerous things that need work on. But I’m not writing some bloody essay on something. THis is a conversation. So that means I have to defend ot correct or surrender my opinions as the occassion occurs.

22

What about the assassination of military bases? It is not so easy to give an accurate definiton of “terrorism”.

If I had a panacea I probably wouldn’t sit here right in front of my computer but would be a renowned politician. I think I don’t need to present a solution to be competent to criticize what happens at the moment.

My point is, that I cannot see how the current behaviour of the Israel government could put an end to the conflict. It increases the rage of many Palestinians and therefore will lead to even more suicide assassinations.

If you want to be correct, be correct to the very end. There are different interpretations of the 10 Commandments in different religions. What you say is correct for Judaism. However, although it might have been only a wrong translation in the first place most Christians today interpret “You shall not kill” as commanding general respect for life.

I would. Bring them before a court and give them a fair trial. Everyone should have that right no matter how evil he or she is considered to be. The human rights and fundamental freedoms are exactly the achievements we (the modern constitutional democracies) try to defend against Osama and his kind. We shouldn’t give up these achievements right now when they are at risk. We should strengthen them.

23

I would. Bring them before a court and give them a fair trial. Everyone should have that right no matter how evil he or she is considered to be. The human rights and fundamental freedoms are exactly the achievements we (the modern constitutional democracies) try to defend against Osama and his kind. We shouldn’t give up these achievements right now when they are at risk. We should strengthen them.[/quote]

that’s exactly the point. Judiciary treatement with NO exception is mandatory if you want a nation to be not barbaric but a respectable democracy.

As long Israel will do extra judiciary killing, they wont be in the latter side. Killing babies or innocents as collaterals is even worse.

BTW, USA and guantamo camp were bad examples too. The last ruling from the supreme court prove however there is counter-powers there and that they work.

And for the wall, the problem is that it allow Israel to annex palestinian land. If the wall was builded on Israel soil and only on israel soil, there would be no problem. that’s precisely in the ruling if you dared to read it (I did).

24

usagi: If you’re at war, I consider military bases legitimate targets.

gr8hamster:

Israel is fighting against a group of terrorists based in the Palestinian terrorities, financed by the UN and trans-Arab interests. If this were a war against something so simple as another nation, it would have been over long ago, with Israel the clear victor. At any time they wished, they could use overwhelming force to crush the Pali terror machine, but at the cost of tens of thousands of Pali civilian lives. It is a mark of Israel’s restraint that they have not done so, regardless of the fact that those same civilians wish them all dead.

I’d rather not use State of Palestine, because there is no such thing. I don’t think the error is irrelevant. I think that it indicates your level of knowledge on the topic. If I call a camel a llama, anyone who trades camels will have a hard time taking me seriously. BTW, I don’t claim to know everything, but I have followed this situation, in depth, for several years now.

Israel was not forced to “give” it to them. Originally, the UN, in agreement with the US apportioned the land amongst the Jews and Palestinians, quickly followed by the declaration and recognition of the modern Jewish state of Israel (1948 I think). Immediately thereafter, Arab forces invaded the infant nation. In fact, that’s happened several times over the last sixty years. Each time, Israel has defended itself from the blatant attempts to destroy at, and each time, increasing their territories. Is this okay to do? Maybe you don’t think so. But I say if you attack my country from a certain vantage point, and we fight back and capture that vantage point (like, ohhh, say, the Golan Heights), we get to keep it, and you had better think twice next time.

Of course they can. They do it all the time. I’m sure you’ve seen the pictures. What about a couple of weeks ago when they dragged a “collaborator” out of the hospital, gathered a nice crowd, then summarily executed him? I saw the picture of that demonstration. Press photographs and eyewitness reports have also shown quite clearly that Hamas, al Aqsa, et al., prefer to shoot at Israeli forces from within crowds of women and children in order to reduce the amount of return fire, and to use as a press opportunity when civilian casualties result. When Israeli forces engage with live ammo, it is to attack specific armed aggressors.

Point me to the resolutions. I’m sure they’re available on the Internet if they exist. I don’t think you’ll find hundreds. Also, which international laws are they disregarding? Is there such as thing as international law? Many people wish their were, but there really isn’t. If you’re referring to the International Criminal Court, then show me where Israel signed on to it. And neither did the US, because not only is it a joke, but no US (and I suspect) no Israeli government official or body, whether Prime Minister, the Knesset, Congress, the President, etc. has the power to sign up for an organization like the ICC that would violate the constitutional rights of it’s citizens. It simply cannot be done.

Based on what? The 1967 attempt by pretty much all bordering Arab nations to destroy Israel? Illegal by whose laws?

Simple thought experiment one this whole question: Can an Arab live peacefully, safely and successfully in Jerusalem? Yes. Many do. They are not discriminated against. Can a Jew live peacefully, safely and successfully in the Palestinian territories (or in any other Arab nation for that matter)? That’s so ridiculous a notion that it’s almost funny.

Who would you have for your neighbors? I’d want the Israelis. You can have the Palestinians.

Once again, this really makes no sense. Do you even understand how the American system of Constitutional government works?

You wish. The polls are actually neck and neck right now, which, after months of Bush bashing in the media and a new Dem running mate announcement is quite remarkable. Usually the challenger is way up at this point in the game. The only poll that matters will be in November, and I’m predicting a substantial victory for Bush in the popular vote, and a near sweep electorally.

Also, WMD was one argument amongst many put forward by the Bush administration. The fact that you think it’s the only reason shows that you never really read or heard any of the official issues from the White House, but instead got your news second-hand, and quite poorly filtered at that. The Iraqi invasion is only the second necessary part of our attempt to sort out the horrid rats’ nest that is the Arab Middle East.

Not as many WMD as the administration expected. That’s one of the reason’s George Tenet’s out of a job now. But there have been some. And more will be found. There is no question that he had them. The real questions on WMD are “where did they go”, “how long ago”, and “why did they act like they had them if they really didn’t?” My guess is that even Saddam thought he had them, but was duped by corrupt and fearful underlings.

So why did the “Puppet Masters” want war with Iraq? Please don’t say oil, because I’m drinking a soda, and I don’t want it coming out of my nose when I laugh.

And who did this? The United States military under the command of George W. Bush. We did what we said we would do. How is that idiotic? How do all those free Iraqi’s feel about it. They know who their real friends are now. The people who gave their blood for the freedom of those half a world away. The fact that you must use the word “unfortunately” in your sentence about getting rid of a tyrant and freeing millions tells me a lot about you. Is the cognitive dissonance giving you headaches at night yet?

And this is my part of the conversation. When I offer to read links to violations, etc. and your point of view, I’m serious. I’ll read them. I vowed to myself a couple of years ago that I could no longer stand by while people spout off on such serious topics while in possession of so little real knowledge. So consider this my speaking up.

25

If you want to be correct, be correct to the very end. There are different interpretations of the 10 Commandments in different religions. What you say is correct for Judaism. However, although it might have been only a wrong translation in the first place most Christians today interpret “You shall not kill” as commanding general respect for life.
[/quote]

Adapting my opinion to to the opinion most christians of today have is not what I call ‘being correct to the very end’. If what I say is true for Judaism, why would it not be true for christians? As you say, they interpret.

26

unfortunatly, co-inciding with this announcement, some people in NZ went to the cemetry and smashed a number of Isreali graves, and drew swastikas on their graves. its believed that this act was done as an insult to isreal, rather than being targeted at the particular graves.

no everything i said in that statement was a fact.

A) people desicrated a cemetary
B) it co-incided exactly with the isreali ties being cut (and has never happened previously, nothing even close)
C) it is believed to be targeted at isreal, and is believed to be in direct relation to this current situation.

yes there is NOW anti isreali sentiment, but you need to realise it is somewhat justified.

anti-semitism is far more than anti isrealism, and i think its inapropriate. although it could be true, i don’t know the people who attacekd the graves so perhaps they were anti semites

but i find it funny that Jews get such a lovely defensive word like anti-semitism which has so much meaning, yet muslims get a word like terrorists which also has so much meaning. anti-american, nazi, satanist, evil…

i hate all the words, i think they are misleading, and only used to provoke hatred. sorry i cannot agree wit your use of terminlogy

Alltaken

27

http://www.diak.org/images/Israel's%20Separation%20Wall%20(1).jpg

Both sides can be way in the wrong, and the only way to truly fix this is for everyone to suddenly have a great enlightenment and start understanding instead of killing each other.

28

alltaken: you used a rhetorical trick of sorts in your initial statement. Indeed, saying “it is believed etc.” is a fact. But most people don’t read it as the fact being that “there exists a belief”, but as the fact of whatever the actual belief is. So, yes, your statement was a fact, but it was simply a fact that some people hold a certain opinion.

Okay, if you don’t want to call them anti-semites, then we’ll used a more descriptive term. When was the last time, I’m seriously asking here, that someone showed their displeasure with a foreign government by desecrating the graves of people native to their own country who shared ethnicity with the gov’t in question? Come on. The people who did that did it because their hate the Jews, as a homogenous ethnic and religious group. Why tap dance around that? Can we call them criminal jew haters?

Also, I don’t use the word to promote hatred. I don’t hate the people who did that. I’m disgusted by them. I’m afraid of what they could do if they become numerous enough or powerful enough. I feel it is an accurate label that simply reflects the reality of their beliefs. If those beliefs and the subsequent label causes them to be seen in a negative light, then so be it.

shbaz:

I checked out that map. Are you aware that the Israeli supreme court just ordered a redraw of those proposed lines, pulling them toward the green line specifically to reduce Palestinian hardship?

Agreed that if everyone could just have a moment of enlightenment, we’d be fine. The Israelis have demonstrated that they are willing to go to great lengths to make peace. The Palis have trashed every single chance they’ve had and returned to violence specifically targeting civilians. They will only be happy when all the Jews in Israel are dead or displaced. There will be no enlightenment for them.

Does the wall suck for the Palis? Indeed it does. I think Israel’s plan is to wall them up, kill off the terrorist leaders, wait for Arafat to die, then let the worst elements kill each other off in the ensuing civil war. After that, maybe the remaining Palis will come to the bargaining table with a little more sincerety.

29

well an anti semite is also someone against arabs.

and i don’t think that it was aimed at JEWS, (perhaps it was) but Isreal, and Jews are two different things.

the use of swastikas relates it to jews, but the timing relates it to Isreal.

so i really don’t know what their intentions were, i don’t defend their actions and i included the example of them doing it in the original post. not because i had to, but because i felt that this event has a number of consequences. one of them being increased hatred on both sides.

i could happily have made a post only about the isreali spys, and painted a picture as if every wrong doing is theirs. but in reality there have been retaliations. and i find it concerning.

nobody wants people in their country to desecrate graves, and act like a F’in baby.

in the particular circumstances of the retaliation, i am unsure whether it is someone who hates all jews (as in the religion) or if its someone who just hates isrealis (the country)

just like burning the US flag doesn’t mean that one hates all people from the US, but that you hate the government.

i really don’t know what it is, and i am trying to not make an over the top statement about them, because i don’t know.

harkyman you are known to be an anti-muslim so any opinion from you in relation to isreal, and/or american attacks is not respected…<------ note how i called you an anti muslim, this implying that you hate all muslims, in all countries, including your own. perhaps its true that you hate iraqis, or palistinians (i don’t know) but the statement that you are anti-muslim is unfair, because it might not necisarily be true. and the circumstances of 9-11 change the meaning of such a word.

Alltaken

30

You can call me that, but you’d be wrong. I’m quite elated for the newly freed Arab and Muslim population of Iraq. One of my sincere wishes is that all people in the world can live under a free system of government. I don’t hate them. I’m pulling for them.

I am quite against those who would maim and kill to subjugate the world to their narrow religious views. Do I hate them? A bit. I hate what they’ve done, and the things they’ve forced the rest of us to do. Do I hate them so much that I’d rather see them dead than turned to a better way? Not at all. Do I think that’s going to happen? Not a chance.

31

i wasn’t calling you anti-muslim

but was using the example, because i think its unfair to say that.

i agree with you on the goals that you have, “everyone living under free society”

but its just the methods that i think we disagree with, and its funny that even though everyone seems to have the same goal, we always fight about how to get there.

Alltaken

32

Edited because I got my hackles up and said entirely uncalled for things, for which I’m deeply sorry. I apologize.

I believe that the following facts will serve to illuminate my belief that Israel is acting out of line. I further believe that while Israel is relatively wealthy and possesses a strong international backing, the people of the Palestinian nation are poor, starving, and oppressed. The Palestinians were there first. Please read the following and come to your own conclusion, especially concerning UN actions against Israel.

33

Do your research

Take your own advice! The Israeli Arabs were there in 1948. Today they peacefully coexist with the Jews of Israel and even have the right to vote. The poeple(s) that today are called Palistinians were brought there in 1946/1947 by the British from the old Ottoman Empire, from different areas that are now about six differen countries.
The root of the problem stems from the history of the region and cannot simply be solved by pacifieng the present conflict.

%<

34

These are the resolutions in question.

General Assembly Resolution 194, Dec. 11, 1948

“Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.”

Security Council Resolution 242, Nov. 22, 1967

Calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year and “the acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.”

Security Council Resolution 446, March 22, 1979

“Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East.”

General Assembly Resolution 3236, November 22, 1974

Affirms “the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine…to self-determination without external interference” and “to national independence and sovereignty.”

Security Council Resolution 1397, March 12, 2002

Affirms “a vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders.”

More UN Resolutions on Israel, 1955-1992:

Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.

Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.

Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem.

Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.

Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.

Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.

Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.

Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.

Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.

Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.

Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.

Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.

Resolution 259: deplores Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.

Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.

Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.

Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.

Resolution 271: condemns Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.

Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 280: condemns Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 298: deplores Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 317: deplores Israel’s refusal to release.

Resolution 332: condemns Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty.

Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 444: deplores Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.

Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.

Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.

Resolution 465: deplores Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.

Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon.

Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.

Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians.

Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel’s claim to Jerusalem are null and void.

Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.

Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.

Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility.

Resolution 497: decides that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights
is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.

Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.

Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.

Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.

Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.

Resolution 520: condemns Israel’s attack into West Beirut.

Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.

Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.

Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.

Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.

Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 641: deplores Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.

Resolution 673: deplores Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.

Resolution 681: deplores Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 694: deplores Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.

Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel’s deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel’s deportation of 413
Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

Go ahead and rebuke the proof of resolutions. Try. I look foward to it.

35

(Numbers relate to above inserted numbers)

1.) Gosh, you have a funny idea of peacefully. If my eleven year old child got a bullet through his skull while running from an armed soldier I’d have quite some difficulty calling it peace, but perhaps you’re more open minded than I.

2.) You’re quite wrong. Palestine has existed for quite some time, in fact Palestine has been predominantly Arabic since the 7th century.

3.) The history of the region? Excuse me? Look up the history of the region. The early history of the region. You’ll find that tensions between Israeli Zionists and Palestinian locals rose in the 1880s, not as the result of some ancient battle. Though, the “history of the region” theory is quite popular and I forgive you for spouting the false rhetoric, you’ve doubtless been exposed to it for some time.

36

a thread for educated individuals who are willing to cite facts instead of drivelling about their pathetic personal opinions

Whatever happened to your magnanimity?

%<

37

You’re right. That was petty. I apologize to all who saw that, and I have now removed it.

Though I notice you didn’t respond to anything other than make an attack at how I presented my facts. The facts still stand, and it is quite hard to make facts vanish.

No substantive response to my statements? Do you, then acquiesce the point?

38

  1. there are 3 main ethnic groups in Israel: the Jews (though their ethnicity is admittedly diverse), the Arab Israelis and the Palastinians.

  2. as a geographic region yes, never as an independant state. It was part of the Ottoman empire that the British and the French arbitrarily carved up.

  3. I’ll forgoe the the history lesson (if you don’t know the difference between Arab Israelis and Palastinians there’s no point).

%<

39

That’s why I said “if you believe in those”. But the meaning of the 10 Commandments is not the point. Important is what I pointed out at the end of my post and what lukep supported.

BTW, the Jewish meaning is also just an interpretation even if they clearly refer to “shall not murder” instead of “shall not kill”. Like every other word “murder” has to be interpreted to know what is meant by that word. What is murder, what is not murder but “mere” killing? That can only be decided by interpretation.

40

No, no, pray tell. I’m quite interested in a history lesson. If I learn something, then I will apologize for the falseties I’ve spouted, and be happier knowing that I have expanded my knowledge. Most Israeli Arabs consider themselves to be Palestinians by nationality and Israeli by citizenship. Please point me to a valid piece of evidence documenting the British government “bringing in Palestinians”. Palestine still is not an independent state. Palestine wasn’t a distinct nation before 1948. It existed as a territory under British Mandate. Before that it belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The “Palestinians” are made up of the people living there before the Zionists arrived.

Let me elaborate on my understanding of the area’s history.

70 AD : Titus of Rome laid siege to Jerusalem. The fiercely defended Temple eventually fell, and with it the whole city. Seeking a complete and enduring victory, Titus ordered the total destruction of the Herodian Temple. A new city named Aelia was built by the Romans on the ruins of Jerusalem, and a temple dedicated to Jupitor raised up.

313 AD : Palestine received special attention when the Roman emperor Constantine I legalized Christianity. His mother, Helena, visited Jerusalem, and Palestine, as the Holy Land, became a focus of Christian pilgrimage. A golden age of prosperity, security, and culture followed. Most of the population became Hellenized and Christianized .

324 AD : Constantine of Byzantium marched on Aelia. He rebuilt the city walls and commissioned the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and opened the city for Christian pilgrimage.

29-614 AD : Byzantine (Roman) rule was interrupted , however , by a brief Persian occupation and ended altogether when Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .

638 AD : The Arab conquest began 1300 years of Muslim presence in what then became known as Filastin. Eager to be rid of their Byzantine overlords and aware of their shared heritage with the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, as well as the Muslims reputation for mercy and compassion in victory, the people of Jerusalem handed over the city after a brief siege. They made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship.

Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, and more than a century passed before the majority converted to Islam. The remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus.

750 AD : The power shifted to Baghdad with the Abbasids, Palestine became neglected. It suffered unrest and successive domination by Seljuks, Fatimids, and European Crusaders. It shared, however, in the glory of Muslim civilization, when the Muslim world enjoyed a golden age of science, art, philosophy, and literature. Muslims preserved Greek learning and broke new ground in several fields, all of which later contributed to the Renaissance in Europe. Like the rest of the empire, however, Palestine under the Mamelukes gradually stagnated and declined.

1000-1899 AD

1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.

1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.

1840 The Ottoman Empire reasserted its authority, instituting its own reforms .

1845 Jewish in Palestine were 12,000 increased to 85,000 by 1914. All people in Palestine were Arabic Muslims and Christians.

1897 the first Zionist Congress held Basle, Switzerland, issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine.

Breif modern history of Palestine:

Aided by the Arabs, the British captured Palestine from the Ottoman Turks in 1917-18. The Arabs revolted against the Turks because the British had promised them, in correspondence (1915-16) with Shareef Husein ibn Ali of Mecca (1856-1931), the independence of their countries after the war . Britain , however, also made other, conflicting commitments in the secret Sykes -Picot agreement with France and Russia (1916), it promised to divide and rule the region with its allies . In a third agreement , the Balfour Declaration of 1917, Britain promised the Jews a Jewish “national home” in Palestine.

This promise was subsequently incorporated in the mandate conferred on Britain by the League of Nations in 1922 . During their mandate (1922-48) the British found their contradictory promises to the Jewish and Palestinian communities difficult to reconcile. The Zionists envisaged large-scale Jewish immigration , and some spoke of a Jewish state constituting all of Palestine . Palestinians , however, rejected Britain’s right to promise their country to a third party and feared dispossession by the Zionists; anti-Zionist attacks occurred in Jerusalem (1920) and Jaffa (1921).

A 1922 statement of British policy denied Zionist claims to all of Palestine and limited Jewish immigration , but reaffirmed support for a Jewish national home. British proposed establishing a legislative council, Palestinians rejected this council as discriminatory.

After 1928, when Jewish immigration increased somewhat, British policy on the subject seesawed under conflicting Arab-Jewish pressures . Immigration rose sharply after the installation (1933) of the Nazi regime in Germany; in 1935 nearly 62,000 Jews entered Palestine.

Fear of Jewish domination was the principal cause of the Arab revolt that broke out in 1936 and continued intermittently until 1939. By that time Britain had again restricted Jewish immigration and purchases of land.

The struggle for Palestine, which abated during World War II, resumed in 1945 . The horrors of the Holocaust produced world sympathy for European Jews and for Zionism , and although Britain still refused to admit 100,000 Jewish to Palestine , many Jewish found their way there illegally.

Various plans for solving the Palestine problem were rejected by one party or the other . Britain finally declared the mandate unworkable and turned the problem over to the UN in April 1947. The Jews and the Palestinians prepared for a showdown . Although the Palestinians outnumbered the Jews (1300000 to 600000), the latter were better prepared . They had a semiautonomous government, led by David Ben-Gurion , and their military, the Haganah, was well trained and experienced . The Palestinians, on the other hand, had never recovered from the Arab revolt , and most of their leaders were in exile.

The Mufti of Jerusalem , their principal spokesman, refused to accept Jewish statehood . When UN proposed partition in November 1947, he rejected the plan while the Jews accepted it . In the military struggle that followed, the Palestinians were defeated . Violence was used on both sides.

Israel was established on May 14, 1948. Five Arab armies , coming to the aid of the Palestinians , immediately attacked it. Uncoordinated and outnumbered, they were defeated by Israeli forces. Israel enlarged its territory . Jordan took the West Bank of the Jordan River, and Egypt took the Gaza Strip. ( Israel occupied these lands after the Six Day War of 1967. ) The war produced 780,000 Palestinian refugees. About half probably left out of fear and panic , while the rest were forced out to make room for Jewish immigrants from Europe and from the Arab world. The Palestinians spread throughout the neighboring countries, where they have maintained their Palestinian national identity and the desire to return to their homeland.

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