# Creating 4 sided faces **URL:** \ **Category:** Basics & Interface\ **Created:** [July 30, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779 "2003-07-30T15:22:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ST150](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/st150/32/588_2.png) [@ST150](https://blenderartists.org/u/ST150)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/1 "2003-07-30T15:22:15Z")
This is something that I’ve wondered for a while now. Why sometimes when you select 4 vertices to form a face does Blender insist on using 2 triangles instead of a single face? I assume it’s something to do with the angles being too sharp, but I haven’t found a way to fix it. When trying to tidy up a mesh this can really slow things down ☹ ---
**Author:** ![aersoy](https://blenderartists.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/7ba0ec/32.png) [@aersoy](https://blenderartists.org/u/aersoy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/2 "2003-07-30T15:43:46Z")
Could that be because those 4 vertices does not form a plane? 3 vertices _always_ form a plane, but 4 may or may not. Side note: This is why photographers use tripods 😉 Thanks, ---
**Author:** ![leon](https://blenderartists.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@leon](https://blenderartists.org/u/leon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/3 "2003-07-30T16:09:04Z")
hmm: a quick question… is there a “make planar” command to move selected vertices onto a plane? if someone has a script for this, it would also be good… ---
**Author:** ![tordat](https://blenderartists.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@tordat](https://blenderartists.org/u/tordat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/4 "2003-07-30T16:13:23Z")
aersoy is right. Imagine two 2 vertex lines perpendicular to each other. They simply can’t form 4 vertex face, there are only two 3 vertex faces to form. Only solution is to move one vertex, make the face and move the vertex back. (a bit lenghty if one has to do it often) Leon, to align vertixes in one line or one plane select them and scale them down to 0 while holding the MMB (or Alt+LMB, for a two button mouse). MMB will restrict scaling to one axis, depending on the movement of the cursor. ---
**Author:** ![IamInnocent](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/iaminnocent/32/68_2.png) [@IamInnocent](https://blenderartists.org/u/IamInnocent)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/5 "2003-07-30T16:21:13Z")
> [@Andy83](#): > > This is something that I’ve wondered for a while now. Why sometimes when you select 4 vertices to form a face does Blender insist on using 2 triangles instead of a single face? > > I assume it’s something to do with the angles being too sharp, but I haven’t found a way to fix it. When trying to tidy up a mesh this can really slow things down ☹ The 4 vertices don’t have to be in the same plane since Blender will cheath his way out of it with to quasi-tris and soft shading. Make a simple plane, erase it face, move one vertice out of plane and press Fkey : it will be filled. More likely, the 4 vertices are more than 4 : do a remove double with everything selected. Jean ---
**Author:** ![z3r0\_d](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/z3r0_d/32/185_2.png) [@z3r0\_d](https://blenderartists.org/u/z3r0_d)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/6 "2003-07-30T16:26:54Z")
when rendering with faces in “solid mode” (default) faces are lit and drawn as triangles. if the face is smoothed (set smooth command in edit buttons) the edge is not visible. It is easier to convert a non-planar quad into triangles because it alleviates the problems with being able to see both sides of the face at once. ---
**Author:** ![ST150](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/st150/32/588_2.png) [@ST150](https://blenderartists.org/u/ST150)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/7 "2003-07-30T16:28:13Z")
So there’s no way Blender will automatically do this for you? or is it a flaw in the modeler? A 4 sided face can exist in any orietation in Blender. So it’s kind of annoying it can only be created in certain ones. Working around this is a major time sink when using with complex models ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ST150](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/st150/32/588_2.png) [@ST150](https://blenderartists.org/u/ST150)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/8 "2003-07-30T16:53:45Z")
Just a note that the reason I’m doing this is to get rid of all the triangles from my mesh. Having quads and triangles in the same sub-surf’d mesh causes a whole load of irregularities. It’s a tedious process lengthened greatly by this problem. Thanks for the replies btw 🙂 I take it from those so far there is no override command to stop Blender doing this. ---
**Author:** ![theeth](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/theeth/32/9_2.png) [@theeth](https://blenderartists.org/u/theeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/9 "2003-07-30T18:01:22Z")
> [@tordat](#): > > Leon, to align vertixes in one line or one plane select them and scale them down to 0 while holding the MMB (or Alt+LMB, for a two button mouse). > MMB will restrict scaling to one axis, depending on the movement of the cursor. only works if you want to align on a global plane (XoY, XoZ, YoZ), doesn’t help with rotated faces. Shouldn’t be too much hard to code though, I just wonder if it’s a worthy addition (maybe as part of a new Align With menu or whatever). Martin ---
**Author:** ![phlip](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/phlip/32/99_2.png) [@phlip](https://blenderartists.org/u/phlip)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/10 "2003-07-30T19:17:59Z")
Ummm, you are pressing F, not Shift+F, aren’t you… if that doesn’t help, use JKey to turn 2 tris into a quad ---
**Author:** ![ST150](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/st150/32/588_2.png) [@ST150](https://blenderartists.org/u/ST150)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/11 "2003-07-31T03:41:32Z")
Does the JKey thing have to be in a specific mode? I can’t get it to work. I guess I’ll use only triangles for future models, quads just aren’t worth the hassle. ---
**Author:** ![phlip](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/phlip/32/99_2.png) [@phlip](https://blenderartists.org/u/phlip)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/12 "2003-07-31T03:43:45Z")
You have to be in editmode, and you have to have the triangles selected. I’ve heard that for some people J doesn’t work, but Ctrl+J or Alt+J does - try messing around with them ---
**Author:** ![GreyBeard](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/greybeard/32/546_2.png) [@GreyBeard](https://blenderartists.org/u/GreyBeard)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/13 "2003-07-31T22:59:12Z")
I also have this problem once in a while - usually with very acute quads on heavily edited meshes. A solution that I have found that usually works is to select all verticies in the mesh and do a Xsort. I can then create the quad in the normal manner – seems to clear up the glitch. Hope this helps 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Khiraly](https://blenderartists.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/edb3f5/32.png) [@Khiraly](https://blenderartists.org/u/Khiraly)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/14 "2003-08-01T04:10:57Z")
Were can I found the ‘Extrude to face’ (or extrude to surface) function? Thx, Khiraly ---
**Author:** ![pamtango](https://blenderartists.org/user_avatar/blenderartists.org/pamtango/32/283_2.png) [@pamtango](https://blenderartists.org/u/pamtango)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://blenderartists.org/t/creating-4-sided-faces/307779/15 "2003-08-01T11:07:50Z")
> Were can I found the ‘Extrude to face’ (or extrude to surface) function? select the face, i.e. vertices of the face, ‘E’ for extrude, confirm, and then Alt-S and drag. Points should go in the direction of the face. If it doesn’t work the way you expect, don’t confirm the move and then go to a different view and repeat until you find the view that works for you. I just did an experiment with a face that faced the side view and was successful using Alt-S in the top view. Hope this helps, PamTango