[Dev] Anyone still using Singletexture materials?

I could remove a good chunk of code and simplify other code if I remove Singletexture mode, but keep Multitexture mode. Then, we could simply have a fixed-function (Multitexture) and a shader based (GLSL Materials) material. So, is anyone still using Singletexture, and if so, why use it over Multitexture?

Ideally, I’d like to get rid of both Singletexture and Multitexture and go with an all shader based rasterizer, which would really simplify the code. However, I don’t think I could get the community behind this, so I’ll settle for just dropping Singletexture for now. That said, is there a reason other than not having GLSL support that people choose not to use GLSL materials?

There’s still some people here who don’t use GLSL mode because they don’t believe a game needs a lot of eyecandy to be fun and that they want their game to run on old hardware. (I’m generally in partial disagreement of the graphics over gameplay argument because too much of an emphasis on the paradigm may either limit the gameplay, interaction, and immersion abilities of the game or just make it look bad).

As for single-texture mode, I’m in full agreement on removing it completely as multi-texture mode offers the exact same legacy shading and a bit more, I simply do not see how people would not have the hardware to run such basic graphical features and manage to use Blender (as I would think the whole program would be quite slow.)

My thoughts are about the same.

I’ve never quite understood the main difference between Single- and Multi-texture.

Anyways, many computers are using OpenGL 2.0, at the least, so Single-Texture is probably not needed. And MultiTexture can be handled by older computers to a degree, as far as I know.

As for single-texture mode, I’m in full agreement on removing it completely as multi-texture mode offers the exact same legacy shading and a bit more, I simply do not see how people would not have the hardware to run such basic graphical features and manage to use Blender (as I would think the whole program would be quite slow.)

+1

Feel free to remove it.

I personally think that the only mode that needs to be supported is GLSL. I know that on this forum there seem to be a high percentage of people that don’t have hardware that supports GLSL mode which means that people are developing on hardware that is almost 10 years old or older. The Steam demographics are telling that just about nobody has hardware that old if they want to play a game (http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/).

I’m pretty sure that a large number of bugs in the BGE are caused by single-texture and multi-texture support. Modern hardware basically emulates the older fixed-function OpenGL calls and probably get the absolute minimum amount of testing required to pass certification. Blender relies on these out-dated OpenGL calls for almost everything and driver issues will continue to be more problematic.

You can get a video card that supports GLSL for under $30 http://www.newegg.com/Desktop-Graphics-Cards/SubCategory/ID-48?Order=PRICE. You can buy a brand new computer that supports GLSL for under $40! https://www.google.com/search?q=raspberry+pi&oq=rasberry&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j5j0l2.4236j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=raspberry+pi&tbm=shop

I totally understand supporting backwards comparability. The problem is that at this point, it is actually causing bugs and hindering new development in a technology that is at least 8 years old now.

Yeah, go ahead and remove 'em both. I use SingleTexture for my 2D-ish games, but I think I’d like to have 'em both removed if it would help development, making it easier. If the community doesn’t want them all gone, then you can remove the SingleTexture mode alone. Basically, I can adapt my games if necessary, or just work with an old version of Blender. Whatever to make it easier to work on the source for developers, and speed up development.

My ultimate preference would indeed be to just have a rasterizer that is completely shader driven (ie. GLSL only since it is true that the needed hardware doesn’t cost that much), some people might initially miss the Texface option that is used for Multi-texture, but perhaps that part can be replaced with a TexFace shader if needed. Some might also request a way to disable pixel interpolation in GLSL as there are some projects that rely on that.

Again, the only thing in the way if the fact that some here simply will not want to use GLSL shading, perhaps they can change their perception if they find out why it’s now serving as old cruft that is preventing parts of the BGE-source from being cleaned out and streamlined. (feeding perceptions that the BGE itself is a piece of old cruft that should be removed).

Just wondering, how many of the other game engines support single-texture and multitexture modes? Maybe that will gives us an answer.

I can think of a couple of people who use multitexture, why not do a poll to see some numbers?

I’d say keep multi-texture, but ditch singletexture. It seems that a fair percentage of games in the finished projects forum are multi-texture, which is interesting.

Not everyone updates their hardware every 3 years, or buys top-of-the range 6 years ago, so many people I know still can’t run GLSL.

Sales of desktop pc’s are declining rapidly, many laptops or tablets can’t run GLSL so don’t be too quick to get rid of the lower power graphics modes. I used single texture mainly for its simplicity and speed of use. But more recent versions of blender have actually made it more difficult to use compared to multitexture.

*Off Topic:
Just wondering, would it be possible to merge the multi-texture and glsl interface for textures together? I think that would be very usefull, especially if you might want to make a normal version and really good looking version. It also would be nicer to work with(and I just can’t figure out how to use Multi-texture, which is the only reason I use GLSL lol :D)
*On Topic:
Yeah, I agree with everyone here. Although everyone I know has a graphics card that supports GLSL, It doesn’t mean that its ok to use it. Many computers have a slow implementation of it, meaning it will work, but not very well :D. So yeah, keep multitexture, but off with single textures head! :smiley:

I do not use single-texture since a long time as it is more or less included in multi-texture. I haven’t heard about any compatibility issues.

Recently someone posted he uses single texture for his game. I do not know the reasons.

From my side:

  • Single-texture can go
    = Multitexture should remain

Off-Topic:

  • a better way to use GLSL-Setting in Multitexture mode would be fine. That way a material can look good in Multitexture AND GLSL and not just in one of them.

+1 for remove the Single and Multitexture modes. It would simplify the development process

+1
Never used singleTexture. And only used GLSL ever since it was supported!
For me, you may remove them both!

I don’t think it’s a matter of updating your hardware on a regular basis, but buying a GLSL-capable graphics card once. I had a new computer that came with integrated graphics, and it was horrible for GLSL games. It was actually horrible for SingleTexture games, too! The new card that I bought a few years ago to rectify the issue was not top of the line at the time, and only costed ~$120 at the time, if I recall. That’s not that pricy. You could probably find that card now for $60 on eBay or places like that.

In any case, my point is that basically, if you are limited to Single or MultiTexture instead of GLSL, you should probably get a new graphics card. I know it’s not that easy for some people, but I don’t think we should hang on to the two options forever. I mean, Blender is a 3D game engine - I think we should focus on making it as easy as possible to work on, and expanding on the existing feature set, not being locked down because of having to maintain two or three separate code bases.

As an example, say you had a computer that runs Windows 95. You wouldn’t really complain that the BGE can’t run on that, right? It’s an old, unsupported operating system - you would have to update your OS, as that’s what the engine needs. It might cost $80 to get a new version of Windows 7, for example, or $40 for Windows XP, or whatever. However, that’s the necessary cost to update your computer to be able to run the game engine. It’s the same thing with the graphics card. Any engine has pre-requisites, and I think having a GLSL-capable card can be one of those pre-requisites, especially if it makes it easier to work on the engine, which would, in turn, make for a more streamlined, bug-free, optimized engine.

Which would you rather have? The BGE that we have now that’s compatible, or a faster, less buggy, and easier to use Blender that outputs more graphically impressive games?

EDIT: But if people want to hold on to a lower-power graphics mode, that’s fine. I don’t think we need both Single and MultiTexture mode, though I see why someone would like to keep them, and see the advantage of keeping a lower-power one around.

I would recommend using multitextured mode and use three basic materials. Opaque, Alpha Blend, Alpha Clip. Set all these materials ‘face textures’ box checked. This will allow applied textures to show up in-game. This will simulate Singletextured mode. Why use multitextured? Youll have control over the alpha, making objects fade in and out.

I think, that BGE should move forward!

Couldn’t you write a GLSL shader that emulates the old functionality?

Well you would still need GLSL support to run that shader, I guess.

I use only GLSL and both Single and multi - texture can be removed if it will help fix and improve GLSL support.