Discharging a citizenship, nay!


(OnGodsGreen) #1

Hey, I was born and raised in America, how do I not be a citizen. In other words, what do I need to do to not be a citizen any more. Is it possible? Methinks not so. Any insights?

-Thor


(Laurifer) #2

May I ask why you are considering that?

-Laurifer


(WhiteBoy) #3

%|

Move away and become a citizen somewhere else.

Bye.


(Dittohead) #4

Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not attacking you personally or at all. I’m going to try to make a hopefully not-so-subtle point here:

Good riddance. The less of you there are here, the more my vote counts. Just because things are bad (in your opinion) doesn’t mean you lose faith in the system or the people. If you feel things are smurfed up bad enough to expatriate then you must fully understand that you are becoming a political exile. Being dismayed at who is in office is a pretty poor reason. You are either leaving because the system here is so screwed up and over that it no longer functions to the letter of it’s law, or you completely believe the de facto system and the letter of law are fundamentally flawed and cannot be restructured or reconstituted to a functional state. If you are simply dismayed then you are a whiney baby who is not willing to take on the right and responsiblity to fix the flawed system, but instead will run away to another flawed system in another part of the world.

Frankly I’d rather stand and fight, either with words, votes, passive action or arms to make the system functional again, rather than running away from a problem.

Running away from a problem, instead of facing it, doesn’t make it go away. It just makes it worse.

Don’t take that personally. It wasn’t meant to be a personal insult, or an insult at all. I’m just trying to make a point that I feel I cannot make otherwise. I have nothing against you.


(Rocketman) #5

OnGodsGreen: there is no point in deliberately terminating your citizenship, if you still plan to live in America. You could become the citizen of another country, but then you’d have double the taxes to pay. Forget it.


(_Centauri_) #6

well said dittohead. Running away like a scared little girl doesnt make things better for anybody.

Even if i did move away from this country, there is no way i would renounce my citizenship here. Maybe if i was wanted in some bogus charge of somthing, but even then… It would be only out of desparation. not out of philosophical differences.

btw, this is kinda off this topic so I’ll try to be brief, but lets just assume bush had lied to us about the whole iraq thing, if thats true, we’ve been fed that same lie back in 97/98 where we came a hairs width of iraqi-freedom… anyone calling clinton a liar? oh yeah thats right, thats why he was popular…


(Dittohead) #7

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. He hasn’t said why, nor have I said he’s a scared little girl, I said what I said to make a point not to insult him.

Let’s try to keep this as civil as possible because I can see this getting out of hand very quickly. Also lets stay on topic and not make this about the American government but rather about expatriation.


(Alltaken) #8

i agree with dittohead in logic, but not in delivery.

the US is truly screwed, by leaving and allowing the Republicans to screw it more you are doing more damage.

leaving the US and still being a citizen will allow you to vote in the US, every vote does count (except in any state using electronic voting machines)

Alltaken


(Burritoboy) #9

I’ve encountered a number of US citizens that wished to distance themselves from the US, financially and politically. They’ve talked about it but to my knowledge none has ever done it.

Remember if you rescind your nationality you are officially stateless, you become a problem, you can’t work, you have few rights, you’ll be poor and have no where to live.

Get nationality somewhere before doing this. Seems that the somewhat unfair double taxation for US expats causes them to do this.

Being out of the system will not allow you to change it.

$0.02 deposited.

BB


(Calvin) #10

Hey, I was born and raised in America, how do I not be a citizen. In other words, what do I need to do to not be a citizen any more. Is it possible? Methinks not so. Any insights?

Me thinks you were not born in America (meaning USA) but if you were, then in a different country in the continent of America.

Your english it too good to have been born in the USA. :wink:


(Burritoboy) #11

Ouch, Calvin, ouch!

BB


(Al_Capone) #12

Maybe you live in a socialist liberal state like California or a bible humping conservative state like Ohio, in that case you don’t need to move to another country to find liberty, there are two state projects in which to create a free state, unless the country in general can’t be found here, like twinkle fever. In that case you might want to try Ecuador.

http://www.freestateproject.org
http://www.freestatewyoming.org


(Rocketman) #13

The warrant of your pre-conceived localist conviction envokes within me an indignation which I choose to convey complacently with the subsequent emoticon:

:frowning:


(Dittohead) #14

:o

Double check your posts!


(Laurifer) #15

I remember how pre-election 2004 my friend’s mom kept “threatening” to move to Canada if Bush got in. She didn’t do it though, along with just about everything else she claims she will do.

The reason is because I think people know the system is working. Transfer of power has always been peaceful. It’s not perfect and it never will be and you cannot please everyone. I am by no means a corperate millionare, but I still am not too upset with things right now.

-Laurifer


(ascotan) #16

You can move to Canada and get canadian citizenship and renounce your american citizenship.

I think it’s sad that a person would renounce his citizenship however. I would feel sorry for any country that would take someone that renouces his citizenship in however. The duty of a citizen in a democracy is to vote and to serve your community. If you are angry then you work to change things. Renouncing your citizenship says you have no concern for you country and have no civic responsibility. No country would be proud to have a member without these qualities.

There is still alot of contention in the u.s. regarding bush. Work to change this. Vote. Change peoples minds. Be a citizen. Instead of running from a problem you need to face it. Are you ashamed because people don’t like you or think poorly of you? I have news for you. It doesn’t change. People who get what they want in life are the ones that show up for it. You need to work to make changes. Complaining has rarely ever solved a problem.


(Fligh) #17

That all sounds wonderful and it’s the kind of thing that every (US) politician would have you believe. However, governments, NGO’s and people all over the world know now that if the USA want’s to use torture, use Christianity to discriminate, use economic growth as an excuse for environmental and atmospheric neglect and dereliction of treaty responsibilities or use preemptive declaration of war to avoid what may or may not happen (or even be the de facto case), then all you have to do is vote for a redneck and congress will toss the baby out the window.

You don’t easily “vote” your way back from a Hitler, a Stalin, a Phol Pot or an Idi Amin breach of the contract of nations. A breach, that in some circles, may be as bad as Sadam Hussein’s.

%<


(sundialsvc4) #18

The media depicts everything in “black and white.” It sells more newspapers and advertisements. Talk-radio also sells more ads when the language is invective, the volume is loud, and the explanations are simple. The media’s depictions are what we would call propaganda, simply because the object is not only to “inform” you but to “motivate” you and perhaps, to “polarize” you.

May I suggest, then, that this is not the only perspective that you should permit yourself to have. May I invite you to study history, and may I point out to you that you can do so from the privacy of your own home using the greatest reference-library ever assembled: the Internet. (Don’t spend all of your time blogging about 3D graphics!) This important exercise will help you to put things into perspective partly by enhancing your sense of time. Your total time-on-planet might be less than twenty years; the circumstances that surround us have been preparing themselves for much longer, and have been repeating themselves for many hundreds.

Some of the speakers of recent history have been positively prophetic in their words, little-regarded though those words were at the time they were spoken. Consider for example the WikiPedia article on “Military-Industrial Complex,” or the text of President (and General) Dwight D. Eisenhower’s speech from which I would quote in part:

Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research – these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.

But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs – balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage – balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.

The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat…

Today, all of us live in a world that has become extremely interconnected – both in commerce and by the miracle of telecommunication. There is no value for someone in another country to say “America may do this, but we shall do that.” By that I mean… in today’s world, there is no “we” that does not quickly affect “everyone else.” There is “nowhere to run away” from this, and nothing to be accomplished in the attempt.

In quoting this extremely important speech, Gen. Eisenhower cited two particular threats to the future world. Everyone has quoted the first of these (the “military industrial complex”), but what about the second one?

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society’s future, we – you and I, and our government – must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written […] this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Prophetic though he was, I do not believe that Gen. Eisenhower thought to put this two-and-two together. He did not articulate that the two threats might be combined as one, but indeed I believe that this is what we, as a world, all face today: a “military industrial complex,” joined in force with the energy industry, led by Eisenhower’s own successor, which happily would thrust the world back into “the certain agony of the battlefield” because of the business opportunities afforded by selling billions of dollars’ worth of weapons, rations, trucks and materials, U. S. flags (to be laid on top of) coffins and bodybags.

They would also sacrifice the basic promises of retirement, of affordable health care, and of meaningful, honorable employment – bringing back the sweatshops and the child labor by the simple expedient of putting these things out-of-sight. They would, as Eisenhower warned, allow democracy to become “the insolvent phantom of tomorrow,” simply for today’s windfall profits. Their thirst for gold knows no bounds. They seek (as all roaches do) to cloak their goings-on in the veils of official secrecy, “for the good of the state and the security of the country,” and today we see them vigorously pursuing this on all fronts.

Leaving the country’s shores won’t stop this madness. Oddly enough, the political process will. The system still works, if we will work it. And it must be a worldwide process: if America (in particular) will not come to heel on its own, responding to the mounting pressures of its own countrymen, then the citizens of other countries must provide pressure of their own. There is “nowhere to run” and there should be no reason to feel the need to. These are not the first evil kings to roam this planet.


(Laurifer) #19

Very well said, sundialsvc4!

So you are saying that the people of yesteryear should have stood out on Ellis Island and protested all the thousands of immigrants to the US? According to your profile you live in Maryland, and unless you are of Native American descent, someone in your family renounced their origional citizenship inorder to come to the States.

I’m not bashing you or anything, mind you. :slight_smile: Just saying it seems kind of strange.

-Laurifer


(Al_Capone) #20

First thing that needs to be done is to abolish all forms of public education and to demand equal rights for children as a work force and to abolish socialist security once and for all. It is these things that threaten the republic we live in and endanger all to a complete authoritarian rule that is the result of democracy itself.