Eye for an eye...

Artwork Finished Projects
21

This is a forum, right? we should feel comfortable talking, right? So if we start frowning upon certain works, noone exept the extremely talented among us would feel comfortable posting here. That, my friends, is called a caste system. Think about it.

A newbie finished works forum would only strengthen this problem, as well as be insulting, can’t you imagine “I think this piece of crap belongs in the n00b thread!” Wanna hear that about something you are proud of? Just tolerate the one or two eyes you see a day, not that hard, right? :wink:

And if anyone disagrees with me, I understand. That’s what makes us human. But lets be civil please! :stuck_out_tongue:

22

Not only do I agree with what StrikerMunc said, but how would one judge what a ‘noob’ is. I picked up blender recently, and I’ve come a long way in my opinon, but what if my long way isn’t good enough for some, and I get flamed for putting it in the wrong forum. If the render annoys you and you have seen it a million times, what good does it do to insult the creator? If you have seen it so much, explain the strenghts and weaknesses compared to what you have seen before. If you know it came from a tutorial, explain how they did a good job following it, and suggest how they might incorporate it into a bigger work. If you want blender to become bigger, help ‘noobs’ push themselves further by encouraging them to do more with their work. I think the negative attitude and sarcasm is just degrating, and not worthwhile for anyone.

23

Perhaps we can have two ‘finished projects’ sections - one that is ‘invite only’?

Madcow - I do feel your response was not particularly nice, but I can understand your frustration…

LetterRip

24

Yes, please do it LetterRip! And invite all elite there. I imagine feelings of 8+ years kids who must read arrogant responses on theirs first steps… Blender is also so excellent because of Elysiun forum, please don’t destroy it with elitism only.

25

Well I agree with M@dcow that it’s not quite a finished project, on the other hand better an eye than just a shiny sphere…

So, nice shiny eye :wink:

Can’t wait for the character this eye belongs to.

Mystery

26

popski - i have no ‘authoritay’ on elysiun. So hopefully it is something the admins will take under consideration…

LetterRip

27

You don’t understand the problem here… Madcow don’t want a newb forum, or an elite one, or the erradication of noob posts. What we want is that the works in 'Finished projects" are… ‘Finished projects’ !!!

Does thinking that ,tests, exercices, tutorials results and abandonned projects
doesn’t belong in this forum makes me arrogant elitist prick ?
I hope not…

I think that noob and pro can post here without problems as soon as both put the same amount of work in their art.

If you are too lazy to finish a project, don’t post it here. That’s what i do ^^

28

Yeah, let’s make an elite and a newb forum. I know where I should be. %|

:smiley:

Maybe tests and exercises don’t belong in ‘Finished Projects’, but they’re also no WIP’s. We don’t really have an obvious place for those, so I don’t mind if people place them in Finished Projects.

This eye, however, belongs in Work in Progress. But no sweat on my sack.

Steenpooj - I’m not sure about the refraction in the eye. Looks a little too strong.

Kupo,
Sago

29

How about simply INFORMING the visitor what each section stands for?
I just opened up those “finished projects” and I didn’t see a post saying “Read here before you post in the Finished Projects section”.
So how should any n00b know about it, eh?
In fact there’s a sticky saying new feature TESTS.
A little further I see a lot of posts saying “… TEST”
So if I didn’t know any better I’d post my first halo in the finished projects section as well.

Redesign the site, make an advanced finished projects section, a n00b finished projects section, a tutorial section and especially a feature test section.
HDRI or hairtests will have no place in the finished projects section.
Create stickies to inform the users.
Preferably in a different colour or something.

In the future don’t piss of saying that n00b s**t doesn’t belong in the advanced finished projects section but simply move it.

The only downside to this is that somebody might post smt really good in the n00b finished projects section and it might go unnoticed amongst the elitists who only see the advanced section.
P

30

Um, am I missing the point, or isn’t there already two “finished project” forums. I was under the impression that this was the “elitist” forum for people who have been “spending weeks or months on their work”, and work that “is the result of a lot of artistic thinking”.

I could probably have pulled those quotes straight out of the focused critique rules, it is very specific about being for the artwork that is the result of a lot of effort. To me, that implies that this “finished projects” forum is specificially for smaller projects or newer users.

If the only art you want to look at is finished, polished, professional artwork, then obviously this isnt the right place. To most of us more advanced users, this would not qualify as a finished project. However, Steenpooj never claims to be an advanced user. For the amount of effort he put into this image, another person may have been able to complete the entire character. That shouldnt devalue the amount of effort Steenpooj put into this image.

31

Um, am I missing the point, or isn’t there already two “finished project” forums. I was under the impression that this was the “elitist” forum for people who have been “spending weeks or months on their work”, and work that “is the result of a lot of artistic thinking”.

Surely you’ve noticed that the Focused Critique forum is abused.

32

[quote=“thelonesoldier”]

Surely you’ve noticed that the Focused Critique forum is abused.

Yes indeed, I stopped posting in there when I realized that even a bunch
of “boxes” could make it into focused critique, what´s the point of
a “higher level” forum if it will be abused and polluted anyway.

Lads, there are no need for namecalling (elitists, snobs, arrogant etc.)
But yet again - this thread demonstrates the need for a separate forum
for quality works from experienced people and a beginners “finished” forum.
It also demonstrates the need for further moderation. Actually I was quite
impressed with how well Elysiun was moderated for almost 6 months, but
it swings back to the ol´comfortable “let´s be friends everyone” type of
forum where anarchy reigns superior.

Beginners:

You have to realize that someone went trough a lot of learning, a lot of work
and not least - a lot of patience to get where they are. Most of the “pro´s”
I know - don´t even call themselves professionals, but to many of you
they´re pure masters in comparison. What´s wrong with that? You´ll get
there too one day - if thats what you want. If thats not what you want,
try to put aside your feelings for a while and take a look back in your
own life…imagine something you´ve worked hard on for a long time…and
suddenly some snot-nose comes up in front of you and screams - LOOK
EVERYONE…look what I MADE!! It´s hard to stay calm and collected
when something like that happens…someone screams back (very few)
someone else (most of us) let it pass… and a few (usually the good ones)
leaves for something better. And is that good for you? no! You need the
mentors, you need the people who know more than you…so YOU can LEARN
from it. It´s the age old respect-and-pay-attention system and it still applies.
So next time …before you eagerly want to present the “Glossy cube/sphere”
that you spent an entire afternoon fiddling with…think twice and show
some respect for those who worked for weeks on a piece or the professionals
that worked for years to GET to the point when they can make quality works
in a few hours. Your time will come - until then - use the WIP forums.

Experienced Blenderists

Don´t kill the newbies :slight_smile:
It´s difficult to stay calm and collected - believe me…I know that part,
just look at this post and you´ll see it didn´t take long before I had to write
my opinions on this subject (not the original post…but the subject of noobs
versus seasoned users), so you can safely assume that I feel exactly the
same as you do. But we need some form of tact and strategy if we´re going
to make this work. There is no doubt that Blender will grow tremendously in
popularity and therefor will have thousands of “noobs” coming to learn,
we need a place to welcome these and to let them have the “feeling” of
accomplishment. Remember your first time when you worked hours and
maybe days on your first face that perhaps to others looked more like an
alien rather than a real human face? But you where SO proud of it - he he…
at least I remember that. Now all that I know…is that I still have SO MUCH to
LEARN, but I also know that I´ve learned a lot and like to share works with
other seasoned Blenderists as well. For this I think we really do need a
Seasoned user forum. But how do we approve? Maybe it should be heavily
moderated (if thats at all possible in here…history shows us it can be done
but fails over time as the moderators perhaps have other lifes? :wink: ) Maybe
it can be done the CGTALK way…by making a choice-gallery? The only
danger with that is that it might be seen upon as a elitist-society where
only the “friends” of the community get in there…and the “obvious best ones”
Tricky tricky…suggestions here would be really nice as I´m a bit at loss myself
to what we´d do here. Now I don´t run Elyson - nor am I at all a Moderator
here (God help you all if I where…I´d moderate so much that you´d end
up hating me). So Suggestions please…you newer know who´s coming up
with “THE” solution.

33

You know I think we all get responsible at this point and stop arguements etc. This is for finished works not fighting. Really moderator should have stepped in a few pages ago.
If you all pay attention this matter has been in some discussion else where here and persons are trying to make constructive suggestions for improvement to Elysiun layout. Doesn’t need to be revisited here and don’t need to pick on this one Blenderhead to vent about things. Little bit of tolerance and patience from everyone till new ways introduced go along way. So I ask you all to return to usual works and welcome new persons effort in meantime please.
sincerely rubbleman

34

man you guys didn’t get anything…AT ALL

we like new users
we like seeing their evolution from some of their first renders up to their latest
we like helping everyone

I that probably stand for 85% of the older members of this community, including madcow and myself.

The focused critique forum was NEVER…but NEVER intended to be for the elite…what in hell could have make you think that?!? it was intended for WIP or finished projects that could go further and be developped in a better way. It’s a place for EVERYONE to get more serious critiques and suggestions.

J0ongle, the focused forum is not abused at all from what I saw. Everything can be post there, if the user that post it is serious about getting critique and improving his work.

Ok a sticky could be made at the top of finished product…but I guess it’s just CLEAR that it must be a complete finished project…no? damn let’s start THINKING…that’s why we got a brain dammit.

Maybe some private message should be sent to every new member with some basic rules of posting to inform them as to what is better accepted and stuff. but what the hell, it shouldn’t even be an obligation, people should think by themselves.

and as far as I know, a [finished] “project” isn’t a simple sphere with reflective and basic textures…it’s a mix of multiple objects that have gone through some tweaking and have been created to fit in a scene or set up…no?

35

people should think by themselves.

Yeah, they should, but that’s not a sentiment to base any action on, because a lot of people don’t think.

Since we have people from both sides claiming the vast majority of the forum agrees with them, maybe we should have a poll?

I thought the Focused Critique was supposed to be for serious, high quality things (especially works for say, a portfolio or a job or whatever). I’m sorry if I misunderstood.

36

Nice work for your character! I can’t wait to see what the character will look like when it is finished.

37

THANK YOU SPIN!!!

btw, nice eye! and a very ironic title…

38

I expect that if we went digging up old posts or looking in peoples gallerys, most of us would have the same quality or even lesser quality work for show.

Now, im not one for bringing other people into the situation, but if we were to get a “pro” to do something similar, a scene of an eye, on its own - I bet they would get quality feed back dispite the fact they probabily used mesh>UV sphear, added a texture bla bla…

People would probabily say they could have added the optic nerve and what not to make it look more realistic, but if a beginner posts it all we can is say …well… the topic speaks for itself.

I thought the eye was pretty good, maybe in three more years of seeing eyes getting posted it maybe rather frustrating but i’d still leave the post be for other people to comment since not everyone is on the same timeline as me and they have to start somewhere. Dispite how much more advance blender gets, that doesn’t mean it’s easier to make better looking images, it means its harder to learn from scratch and has the capability to create better images.

dispite how much better photoshop is today, people still creat the shittist of images, because no matter how good the program is, it all takes time. But if any of you started digital painting i don’t think you’d spend 5 or so years in your basement till your up to my standard before posting will ya?

Dont ask for the impossible.

What funny is that i’ve seen loads of post for complex models such as faces that never get a comment from many people if any, or any beginner who posts “real” finished projects but these “crap” images seams to get alot of attention from our 3+ year old members (sign up age, not actualy age). Maybe if they stoped bumping them all up to the top for 3 months they might actually see other posts.

The problem seam to be more with “seen this sort of thing before, like 10000million times, got the tshirt too.” rather than the complexitity or time taken to make it.

just a thought.

39

This is totally the wrong forum to discuss these issues, as well, it has gotten out of hand.

THis one ends now.

BgDM