Face loops and terminating detail

Great site, explains it better then I ever could (or can completely understand at the moment):

Good stuff. This should be moved to tutorials - maybe.

Here’s my standard approach (If you slide the edges around a little the result is similar to your first solution):


ya why cant blender make face for more than 4 verts?

wait, wat if u used fgon???

it makes pentagons but its just a pain in the ass-a-tution

why cant blender make face for more than 4 verts?

Because it can’t.

wait, wat if u used fgon???

They aren’t real.

F-Gon = “Fake n-gon”. Blender makes it look like a poly with more than four edges but it really just hides the edges that are dividing it into tris. For organic, deforming shapes in animation, use quads or hide tris where they won’t be seen.

I’ve been thinking for a while that fgons would work just fine with a few minor changes. The thing about fgons is that you have to create the faces first, then hide them with an fgon, and once you create those faces they are set. What I would like to see is fgons that automatically generate the faces requred to fill the area they are givin. This is basically all the real ngons are doing in other packages - hiding edges and automatically generating decent faces. If the fgons would automatically update their fill during animation it should smooth fine. I guess the problem is writing a fill algorithm smart enough to create decent (edgeloop perserving) geometery :confused:
The vaunted winged-edge and half-edge(HE) data structures are supposed to give you enough information to do this. I’m sure someone clever enough could write some kind of loop resolution code that would work with Blenders current data structure though. If nothing else you could just select the fgons verts, expand the selection a couple times, then build a HE data structure just for that area. Too bad I don’t get C…

A Blend file to play with…

You have to watched out indeed when localizing details. There are quite a few ways to localize details, but be carefull not to make unwanted face loops. The rip tool works great.
Use spin edge/ quad with caution. Use the knife tool with caution.

Basicaly what you are high lighting here has been discussed thouroughly here (which is a very nice thread by SomeArtist): http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907

The discussion is ongoing and I think that I still might have something to add like: layering topology: the basic flows and how they combine / interact with the detail flows. How much detail and what kind of detail should/ could be added 2 before switching to bump mapping/ normal mapping etc?

Here’s a little secret…
-there are really only nine ways an edge can begin…

  • and only nine that it can end…
    (I won’t disclose the details, but that’s just a hint…)

btw: when you have a row of 3 edgeloops, it’s the middle loop that ends while the outer two converge. -now you can stop racking your mind on how to place them on a model :slight_smile: -one more thing… twist the resulting quard so it won’t deform oddly…
blend on!

toontje: That is a really great thread! Too bad it didn’t happen here… Maybe we can steal some of the material and added it some place? I don’t know if it fits in the noob to pro wikibook, but it would be nice to have somewhere!

I think that nobody would mind. I added some stuff to the thread, SomeArtist, whom is a Blender convert, certainly wouldn’t mind (but ask to be polite) and Subdivision modeling don’t mind cross posting either. But like SomeArtist said, you could be talking days after days about all the posibilities. At a certain point, instinct should take over. Just do what is needed to be done.

I would certainly like to see this topic covered in BlenderWiki. The disussion is not over though. I think we are halfway there. There are some topics to be clarified and researched. Like SomeArtist said: If you understand those concept, you’ll be modelling like Stahlberg in no time. :slight_smile:

Edit: Check out his Blog too: it is a organic modellers goldmine. At one point he switched from Wings3D to Blender. Yay Blender! http://3dwisdoms.blogspot.com/

Actually after getting a few pages in I changed my mind, we just need lots of links pointing to that forum :smiley:

I actually remember when that forum was created! (I think) At the time there weren’t very many people there, and places like spiraloid were the hot forums for subd modelling. I didn’t have enough skill at the time to contribute and eventually stopped checking for updates. I watched metagons.com for a lot longer actually, but it is now completely gone and the subd forums are booming! I recognize a lot of names from the Wings3d forums too :eek:

Double thanks for pointing out that link! Now excuse me while I tear down this thread…

I am slowly working my way through the thread at subd, but I have question- how do I spinquad in blender?

Is there a hotkey, or do I have to do it manually?

CTRL+E will do it.