HI. i have problems with a palm rig. Dont know… was trying to change a bones roll (but maybe doing it wrong - never know which axis to recalculate bones and which bones how many degrees roll should have - 90? 0? 180? or any other roll like 68 or 75 are acceptable as well?? Or maybe that a problem with a mesh ? Please take a look at it and tell me what i have to do to put this palm in a proper fist position by rotating only Palm.04.L bone
Humane Rigging Part 7 @12:00 covers bone rolls and how to properly set them.
You can set the bone roll to whatever value works, but there’s a proper way to do it. Turn on the Axes checkbox in the Display panel for armature properties. Then make sure that all the same axes of your bones point in the same direction, preferably keeping the z axis as the up/down axis. It’s easiest to line up your view so your looking down the chain of bones and can see all the axes markers superimposed on each other.
Yes I know that. All of the fingers are looking in the same direction. The only thing different it’s a bones roll - different for each finger in my case. So even that fingers are looking in same direction there is still something goes weird and it’s put them in that knot. Link you given me I know. I watched all of the tutorials of that guy but I found them not very helpful since that guy is professional rigger and because of that he forgets to explain some of the details which are very important for the beginners but unnoticeable and unsignificant for professionals. But will have a look at part 7 again anyway. Thanks
looking at your file, I see that f_pinky.2.L is slightly off the orientation of the higher bones in that finger. It’s bone roll is at -98.7 degrees, where it should be at -90 degrees.Same thing with f_pinky.3.L.
I’m not understanding why you want to use Palm.04.L…
tell me what i have to do to put this palm in a proper fist position by rotating only Palm.04.L bone
I believe what you want is to execute that roll with bone f_pinky.01.L
Palm.04.L is great to use for for ‘flaring’ the fingers but not for making a fist…
i also will recomend you look at two of Nathan Vegdahl’s Finger Riggs…
the first video explains Palm Riggs and finger flare…
the second is where Nathan talks about bending fingers to make a fist… not flaring the fingers or bending the Palm around…
Nathan is one of the very top Riggers in the Blender community…
I went through Nathan’s videos 7 times before I got everything to work the way he was getting them to work…
but it was worth the effort…
Thanks guys for the help. If I.understand you right that’s a rule to keep all of the horizontal bones on same roll and vertical bones on same roll and no exceptions of rules, even if bones are still not behaving right after that rule applied?
Another thing is confusing me is Why after recalculating all selected bones on axis you choose ( after Cntrl N) all the bones are still have different rolls? To me recalculating on axis means they will be looking at same direction and if they are.looking same direction than they rolls should be same as well. But it’s not. It’s still different after Cntrl N. Am I right?
The link you given is exactly the one I used for creating this palm rig! That’s where I got idea from. So you suggest that for the fingers I should use another rig. And this palm rig is not suitable for that. OK will check out another link
Also I found that action constrain works well, but I am currently have a trouble with mirroring action to other side which i mentioned about in another thread.
You can have different rolls for sure. For the fingers I would rotate them in the local axis in pose mode, then adjust the rolls for each knuckle starting from the top to the inner ones and make sure it looks good. Just switch from edit to pose mode and back, adjust, do it again. The fingers should rotate straight, and if it still looks off you need to rotate the actual bones instead of editing the roll.
I’m more than glad to help where I can, but I’m still quite new to all this too, so I can only help so much. I don’t think the bone roll issue is a hard-and-fast rule, but it’s the point to start at in solving your problem. After I looked at your file the first time and told you about the bone rolls all being different, I spotted the same issue that @norvman did. So you need to set all your finger bone rolls to the same axes (do it by hand if the other method you used didn’t take). and then fix the problem that @norvman pointed out with the palm bone If the bones are still twisting AFTER that, THEN adjust the finger’s bone rolls to straighten them out. But you need to start out with some order so you can see what goes wrong. That’s why I suggested you set the bone rolls to -90.
Another thing is confusing me is Why after recalculating all selected bones on axis you choose ( after Cntrl N) all the bones are still have different rolls? To me recalculating on axis means they will be looking at same direction and if they are.looking same direction than they rolls should be same as well. But it’s not. It’s still different after Cntrl N. Am I right?
The link you given is exactly the one I used for creating this palm rig!
Nooooo… I think you had better go back and watch those videos again…
your rig is nothing like the video’s I suggested above…
your using a “Dimitri” Rigg from CG cookie…
the Dimitri rig does not use Action constraints…
it uses Copy Rotation Constraints…
but I am currently have a trouble with mirroring action to other side which i mentioned about in another thread.
action constraints don’t mirror… AFAIK…
that’s probably why your having trouble with them…
go watch this video…
jump ahead to about 18:30 min into the video to see what he does…
Thanks guys for the help. If I.understand you right that’s a rule to keep all of the horizontal bones on same roll and vertical bones on same roll and no exceptions of rules, even if bones are still not behaving right after that rule applied?
No…
if you watch the video’s suggested you will see why…
Yes. But, just the part of that palm rig I borrowed. So if you noticed Nathan constrained bone and bone 001 and bone 002 to bone 003 with copy rot constrains. That’s the only thing I used from that rig…
Take a look at this. I removed the constraints on the first finger bones and adjusted the last two bones in the pinky. I don’t think those constraints belong there, since they depend on the palm rotation for the fingers to rotate at all.
Hi,Cyaoeu. I figured it out that method as well - switching from edit mode to pose mode once selected finger roll was adjusted. And I was doing that while keeping the pose, so I adjusted all of the fingers well and was happy with the position of each finger, but once I did Alt R to bring them in initial positioned they turned out to be not well aligned so I had to adjust them again in starting pose as well not only in rotated pose, than I thought I will not do it again because it will be a circle of problems
Yes. But, just the part of that palm rig I borrowed. So if you noticed Nathan constrained bone and bone 001 and bone 002 to bone 003 with copy rot constrains. That’s the only thing I used from that rig…
Yes… but not to drive all the fingers… Which is what you have currently in the file you uploaded…
so the point is … in Nathan’s Rigg… the Palm bones use Copy Rotation constraints… to get the finger flair effect… but that’s all they drive… just the Palm bones for the Flair effect… not all the other bones…
now if you want to use the Dimitri style fingers … as opposed to Nathan’s Action constraint fingers… that’s cool…
but then you need a different driver bone (Control bone) to drive the knuckle curl for those to all bend in a fist…
I normally copy the pinky bone and pull it out to the side of the hand and use it to drive the first joint fingers in the fist curl…
in the Palm Flair… you don’t need a constraint on the Index finger…
the middle finger copy rotation constraint should be set to around 0.3
the Ring finger copy rotation constraint should be set to about 0.6
then the Rotations on all the Palm bones should be unlocked…
because the have to rotate on more than just the local X axis…
OK. Will check out other version of palm and fingers rig but also will be grateful if somebody can tell me how to properly mirror action constrain with all of the keyframes to other side of the hand since I already got it work well for one side. What is left is just to mirror it to another.
