…as in Macromedia Flash.

I’m wondering, is it safe already to use flash content on pages? I don’t mean an all-flash page, probably just a flash button menu. Just because it looks so nice and animated and stuff. I remember reading once that flash pages are not recommended because they are very un-compliant and normal users (interest group in this case is 30-60 yrs old, mostly “dumbusers”) are very reluctant to install the plugin.
A good exaple of what I plan to do is this page - <edit=oops, wrong url> http://www.suurland.com/
The button menu on the left is flash. Nice, clear, effective and looks so good :smiley:
So should I try using flash on my page?
Any help and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated :slight_smile:

If it helps to make a better webpage, use it.
What I don’t like a these fat flash pages which only show how great the makers are.
If it’s for dumbuser, good, they will click ok anyway (To install the plugin). And the preinstalled windows systems have the flash plugin already (i think). It even came with my SuSE-Linux installation.
I think, the only thing to take care of is the filesize. I hate entering a webpage, which is preloading xxxx kb of flash crap. But a small, well designed button bar should be ok. Like in the example you have given.


(I’m not a webdesigner, so this is from the (not-that-dumb-)users view)

If you use Flash, have a non-Flash option.

It mostly satisfies the designer and not the viewer. I don’t like flash

Short answer:
I second nico’s opinion. Don’t like Flash.

For a longer explanation, I wrote a post on my blog on this very topic some time ago, since I too was wrestling with decisions about how to make my new site. You can read it here:

Hope that helps.

Java! more low-level, so you can do fancier things with it, and its more standard!

from an OS/browser perspective: almost everybody CAN view flash content. (windows,mac,linux,etc.) If you want to reach the few that can’t I second the opinion of having a non-flash standards compliant version for those few. If the two versions end up too similar, you should ditch the flash in favour of keeping your maintainability.

I love flash. I just hate the people that steal it, think they can use it and make TERRIBLE, LARGE, and USELESS pages that just reuse someone elses code, and then say “yeah i know flash.”

I’m talking about the pages with WAY too many bitmaps, pointless animations, poor layout, and huge filesizes. I think that since software is so easy to steal nowadays, way too many non-developers/non-designers are getting their hands on this great peice of software and using-it-into-the-ground, making good people like yourselves, hate it.

I think its important to have an alternitive to the Flash page though


OK, I am not blind. And maybe most sites (specially sites about graphics) are not interesting for blinds. But biggest problem of flash is, that if you don’t have graphics and there is no other way to select a menu point, you just don’t get there. Flash is annoying on sites, which don’t need flashing and animating and running around like hell buttons. And handicapped people will not be able to “see” the content, because they are not able to press the buttons. (Think also about people which are not able to use a mouse!)

So, use flash if you like, but remember, that there are people who are not able to use flash-buttons.

btw: Most menues don’t get better, when they are animated and flashing and running around like hell… :smiley:

Well I’ve decided not to go for Flash because I can get almost the same effect (no pretty animations, however) with some rollovers.

The site WIP, deadline 3rd Jan.
English version will be started once I get the Estonian one up and running.

i wont vote cause i dont agree with any of the above instead

D) use is cause its easier than learning how to do it in javascript and html

i have nothing against flash, only poor designers, its sorta like the gun thing “guns dont kill, people kill”

if your website is well designed and easy to use go for it.
and please, if you have a song looping, have an off button :stuck_out_tongue:

Actually, the site I named above I made with Fireworks MX and tehn sliced it. Fireworks also enables you to create button presets and button states. So I don’t have to learn Javascript. Then I export it to Dreamweaver, include my php, add content etc. So rollovers are simple click’a’create things these days :wink:

nice design! pretty interesting looking site.

I’d say flash is a great web design tool but only if used correctly. You have to keep in mind that a lot of dial-up users will be accessing the site and flash files may take some time to load if it’s too graphic and sound intensive. Making a WHOLE site in flash can be cool like most band pages seem to be doing now adays… http://www.soilmusic.com for example. It gets the point across without being to cluttered like a lot of other sites I’ve visited. If you do your site entirely in flash it is good practice to make an HTML version also for those who do not like flash. That way you don’t lose any traffic for those who may not like the flash design.

Having flash menus on your page can be great, or terrible. :wink: You have to keep in mind that if people can’t find what they are looking for on your site within 3 clicks they’ll be likely to leave and surf elsewhere…er, read that in a book. So having a nice, clean, and clearly labeled menu with vector art in flash is usually nice on the eyes. But sometimes a nice java menu with well coded roll over effects can achieve the same effects. The webpage you listed for example has is a great example of how to encorporate flash with your web page. It’s easiely accessable and matches the scheme of the web page. I’ve seen some extremely gaudy flash menus that seem to ruin the web page.

Sorry for the ranting by the way :slight_smile: Some final thoughts…keep the menu stable! I don’t know anybody that likes a floating menu. I find it annoying when you scroll down a content page and the flash menu follows along sometimes blocking the text you were reading. Don’t get too flashy with flash (no pun intened). As my old C++ teacher would say (repeatedly!) Keep it simple, stupid! :stuck_out_tongue: Okay, that’s all for me. Hope that was somewhat helpfull and not a waste of y’alls time.

though if you want an over the top page done in flash, but is quite worthy of its over the topness, www.dissectional.com.

though its not for the faint hearted.

LOL i went to the last page and got a message saying “there is a script in this macromedia flash movie that has caused your computer to run slowly would you like to terminate it.”

YES PLEASE was my response (2.4Ghz 1Gb ram LOL)

i really hate flash for menu items and entire pages, i have seen flash done VERY VERY well as background images to title bars, much smaller files than a bitmap based image, if done well.

the things i live by when designing websites, is, FUNCTIONALITY, EASE OF USE, COMPATIBILITY, and SIMPLICITY.

there was a guy at the winamp forums complaining about how einamp 5 is bloatware and its huge and slow all this stuff (which isn’t true LOL)

he had a link to his website, it was all done in flash. 700Kb front page.

i went to it and thought OMG, this looks nice but is useless.

he would have had uncompressed TIFF or whatever files as the images in the flash, with these stupid animated squares flying over everything.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaah it was not worth 700Kb.

front page should always open ina few seconds IMO, the other pages can open slightly slower if image intensive etc… but front page is the one people will remember the speed of. (and i’m not talking about the INTRO page which is stupidly popular and offers no use excpet to stick another click in the way)

but seriously FLASH can be used well, but in my experience its not.

you cannot right click on a flash link and copy the link location, or open in a new tab, etc… also many flash sites are a fixed size of about 700x500. its a damn joke, on a 1600x1200 screen its like a damn postage stamp.

my rant over


I totally agree with you, alltaken. It’s almost as if a small percentage of Flash designers out there know what they are doing well enough to create a great web page. The problem is that people that are new to web design jump into Flash way to early. I was guilty of that when I first started but I learned that good web design is so much more then small flash applets that catch the eye. Like you said, the main page should load quickly. Yes, haveing an ‘enter’ page is only necessary if you DO want to give the option of loading your HTML site or the FLASH site. I think it’s best to do research on the structure of a good web page before I begin designing mine. There are great books on the ‘do’s and don’ts’ of web design that act as a great guide to making an incredible design.

I understand why people load up the page with flash files…it’s easy and they want to get peoples attention with the graphics. Sure, a little eye candy couldn’t hurt but having tons of animated drawings, sounds, and other useless items in the background will really put of your visitors. Take Elysiun.com for exampe…the design is simple, easy, and looks very very presentable. The graphic header was well done and the color scheme is pleasing. A simple header style menu for easy one click navigation is a nice touch.

…and I’m ranting again! :slight_smile: That’s what I get for posting on no sleep. :stuck_out_tongue:

First off I probably do more flash stuff than anyone else on this forum, so I am bound to be biased.

Most people who think flash sucks dont realize how powerful it can be, . I guess that a lot of you havent seen examples of flash being used well

check out



Also flash and usability have been improved immensely with the past few versions of flash, and yes it is possible for disabled people to access flash content.

A lot of the articles that you find on the internet deal with older versions of flash and are now outdated.

Flash also gives the ablility make the web a more interactive experience, with video and 3d elements


while I think that flash is still bad for sites that need to output a lot of information. I think its perfect for sites about movies, cars, music, etc
Flash menus i dont reccomend (though i use one on my site) cause the bring down your sites searchability (soulution to this is to use a site map)


I simply say… look at the numbers. Flash is the program that most people surfing the web have installed. I recently read that 98% of online people have it!!!

That is way more than the proggy in second place, which of course is internet explorer.

So simply put… if you want to design something a certain way and you want to be sure that the people visiting your site see it that way… flash is the safest, most widespread thing out there.

And btw… those without flash are usually a certain type of people… they normally don’t have a regular windoze browser and windoze operating system either. In all honesty… that small group of people not using flash is not the group you code your site for if you’re aiming to make a site for the biggest possible audience.

Especially now with flash6/mx and actionscript allowing for more 3d and dynamic content the system is maturing at an incredible rate.

Though I don’t like every function in it… flash is the future.

i clicked why not flash, its todays standard, but i think its totally personal preference, ive seen flash, and html pages, that were awesome, i think html is better to reach the masses (not everyody has flash)