Flowers and Ponies and Rainbows

Hi All,

Now that bMesh is integrated into the trunk are we stuck with it?

I notice that recent builds on graphicall.org no longer offer a non-bmesh option. So if I want new Blender features but still want to use my old working scripts I am kind of at a loss. One of the big losses is the 3Delight exporter. It no longer works with Blender 2.6.2 with bMesh. It just crashes Blender when previewing a material.

What a dramatic thread title…

You can still go to File > Save As, and check “Legacy Mesh Format”. This file can be loaded in any former Blender version.

You must be new here…

yes, of course we’re ‘stuck’ with it.

And everything that’s broken will eventually be fixed. Until then just use an older version for your work.

You can still go to File > Save As, and check “Legacy Mesh Format”. This file can be loaded in any former Blender version.

Though I try to read every single commit (and only understand 5% of it), I learn something new again

use an older version for your work
As I mentioned, I want to use new features.

@DingTo: That Save As feature is nice to know about, but it does not stop the 3Delight exporter from crashing Blender.

I just assumed bMesh would be implemented as another object type, like curve, font, lattice etc… Why lose our existing mesh type? Then anyone who wants to use or develop new scenes using a bMesh object can.

It just seems like a wreckless development path to swap out an existing object that has thousands of hours of scripting development, world wide, out the window and now we all have to start over again.

everything that’s broken will eventually be fixed
To believe this, I guess you must be new here as well…

A separate object type was a good idea(at least for a transition amount of time,maybe one year).
Switching between version it’s not a great thing(I switch between 2.49, 2,60,2.62,it’s not easier).
3dsmax can have edit mesh and edit poly and blender can’t have 2 type of mesh structures?

B-Mesh is a complete rewrite of the mesh system, not a new object type…

Campbell is already working a lot on the new B-Mesh API, and many scripts are already updated. (And the fixes were oneliners many times, so not too hard to fix I think).

We all knew B-Mesh integration would cause some issues at first, but it’s not that a new mesh system comes every year or so…
And the benefits are great (N-Gons, easier to develop new Mesh tools later, more extendable etc)…

Of course B-mesh in the long run is the way to go,but the fact that old mesh structure creates polygon objects and B-mesh does the same thing doesn’t mean you can use both(simply to make the transition easier).
It’s like saying that the older fluid system have to be discarded because the new fluid particles,or like saying blender internal render engine must be discarded because of cycles…
Blender development has a strong tendency to discourage the contribute made by the occasional coder(practically or you are completely inside the development or this kind of work will not survive more than 3 months…)

Blender Internal is what…15 years old? Mesh system about the same…?
If you don’t like progress use Blender 2.4x or 2.3x as long as you want.

I like progress but I think blender internal will be in for a long amount of time(at least until hair particles will be supported by cycles),it’s only an example to point out that not always it’s a good thing to replace a tool suddenly,brutally.
About b-mesh, I know it was inserted with the right time(it’s an old project),but maybe the transition could be better managed(as an user I really don’t see why
scripts have to be updated every 15 days,maybe the author doesn’t use Blender anymore…).
And,it’s not a question about progress,it’s a question about workflow.
Why the user experience must be worse(not in the long time) every time something need to be improved?
Progress has nothing to do with this.

Bmesh should have been done a long time ago may be in 2.52!

but it is integrated now which is late and creates problems with scripts already done in 2.5

and you cannot anymore append objects from 2.6 to 2.49
you dont’ get faces in 2.49 if you do that !

i will have at least to convert 100 small scripts and it’s a pain in the neck!

now are there more details on this feature = “Legacy Mesh Format”.
never seen it before and would like to udnerstand it

happy blendering

thanks

Well, you don’t have to update your script every 15 days if you only use stable versions. Complaining that something is broken in the dev builds is not correct. That’s why it’s a dev version. :wink:
Making a small change every 2 months when the API changes is not that bad, sometimes you don’t have you change anything for months, since 2.57 the Blender API was fairly stable and not many changes have been made afterwards. B-Mesh howerer is a major change.

Also I would say it’s a matter of resources. You mention 3DS Max above, they have a lot more developers.

It saves a blend file with a mesh that can be loaded in 2.62 or older. It simply converts n-gons to quads/tris if there are any and so you can load that file or append the mesh in earlier versions again.

Instead of whining, stick with 2.62 until everything works. I don’t think there is any better way they could have done the transition - if this was any other commercial software package you wouldn’t even hear about b-mesh until it’s finished. For some reason people keep using bleeding edge versions but expect them to work flawlessly…

It saves a blend file with a mesh that can be loaded in 2.62 or older. It simply converts n-gons to quads/tris if there are any and so you can load that file or append the mesh in earlier versions again.

@DingTo
At the same time, have you tried to import a obj file with ngons? The importer converts them to tris. Even worse, with wrong normals some times.
Have you tried to export these n-gons from blender?
Anyway the obj file I tried was exported from 3dcoat. Indeed all data is there, zbrush for instance has a warning for how it will convert them to tri-quads or tri only.
So, importers don’t work right now, obj works on latest builds from graphicall but not quite well.
I also tested modo, here another warning, that obj supports tris and quads only!!!
I also tried to import LWO format. It works on the official 2.6 but not under bmesh builds. A cloud of vertices is all I get.

Importers are the most important for me.

This is true,but only from a point of view.
The advantage for using a developer version is that you can be prepared to this kind of problems(and obviously you can use new features).
If Blender releases are a 0.01 increment(like from blender 2.60 to blender 2.61 or 2.62) the hystory(of the development) says you’ll have always something that lacks from a previous release so this it’s not as simple as “wait for the release”,there are things still missing from 2.4 series( particles for example since only few releases have the same tools set as previously)
Anyway,from my part it’s not a debate versus blender development,I’m simply wondering if it’s the only way
Maybe we could avoid 2.61…2.69,maybe it’s better to have blender 2.5, and blender 3.
My last word on the subject(not interested at all in a flame)

Why are you complaining about missing features in a build that’s not even a release candidate?

Wait for the relaese candidates and if the bugs or missing features are still there, file a report so things can be fixed before release.

i thought it was a myth that anyone would be against bmesh. i was wrong…i was wrong.

This reminds of an article about Peter Jackson (paraphrased from memory) - He would say, “We need to take this project in this direction”, and everybody else would complain that was a bad idea exclaiming, “we are comfortable doing it this way!” Then he would drag them to the new method kicking and screaming, and after all was said an done, they said, “hmmph…it really is better doing it the new way.”

In short - growth is hard and painful, generally it a PITA…but in the end it’s for the better.

Anybody who complains something is broken in a non-official release is just being unreasonable. The development builds on GraphicAll are for testing and bug reporting. If you use them for actual work, you’re just asking for trouble and you should be prepared to lose time and work. Wanting new features is no excuse for being irresponsible. Don’t expect 2.63 to be flawless either.

No one is forcing anyone to only use the latest version of blender.
Bmesh is a new fish, and I don’t believe it will be issue free even on release.
Instead of complaining that bmesh ruined the addons, use the previous version untill bmesh catches up.