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21

Once you have worked with the awesome tools Wings3D provides (tweak, connect, magnets, slide, loopselections etc) that really speed up modeling, the mesh editing tools of blender just feel clumsy. For the rest Blender is a very fine programm though.

Edit: Most of these great features are easy to overlook, but if you enable advanced menus in the properties, and have a close look at the bottom status bar where all the context sensitive operations are displayed, you can figure them out pretty quickly.

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pareon, I’ve modeled with Blender, and to me is ok, I am just really faster with Wings, was faster than my mates in any modelling, them using Maya and Max at our jobs…(yet though I’d maybe prefer Blender for game levels modelling)

Is the viewport, the handling, the speed, the flexibility. But for organic or objects modelling. I don’t have any issues to work with specialized tools, is something you end up doing a lot in game industry jobs, I’ve done, and used even hard and terrible in-house level builders…You get used to deal with full control on exports , formats and tweaks, and gain the sky, for having th ebest tool for every area.

How much time I’ll be preferring Wings3d to othe rmodelers? i dunno. Silo is promising, but doesnt have that super concentrating feel/ui of wings. Imo .It always had configurable keystroke in “realtime” (you can asign a key as you’re over it) , it’s simply a tool you can use with loads of key shortcuts, or all with mouse, or a mix, which I do. But it’s n-gons, winged edge methods, are very complex to explain, on why there’s so much advantage.
I guess Blender will end up having it, and an alternative for people that prefer somewhat different viewport handling, as an option. As, since 2002 (i used more rarely when 1.x…) all needed good features keep coming, so it’ll reach there, that’s its strength.Wings only needs to focus in modelling, also.But imho, is superb. I dont have any issue modeling there and doing the rest in Blender.Oh, and I also model hi res organic models, I’m not just one of those game artists, also, lately is more about hi res than anything…

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Edit: Most of these great features are easy to overlook, but if you enable advanced menus in the properties, and have a close look at the bottom status bar where all the context sensitive operations are displayed, you can figure them out pretty quickly.

Yeh I’ll try out this afternoon ^^

Is the viewport, the handling, the speed, the flexibility.

Hmm I need to give it a try. I’ve modeled a complete drumset in Blender last week and it was a joy to do it with Blender - is this a weak point of Wings? I mean coping with many objects and adjusting them on a plain?

How is your workflow? You’re doing the low-poly-meshes in Wings and then export it to Blender and there you’re doing the subsurf-mod and the final render? I wasn’t convinced of the subdiv’s of Wings but maybe I’m wrong.

I’ve downloaded gSculpt right now and it’s also an awesome pure modeler because it has the undo-list as a history where you can go back to every point, change something and then go forward where you were at.

I’ve styled Wings that it looks like Blender and I turned on the “Blender-like feeling” - I like it that you can use even most of the common controls of the other programs (Maya, Max, etc.).

I heard so often that the small Wings is much much better than commercial applications like Silo or Modo. That’s awesome.

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Wings is going to slow in dev for me. I hope it gets better soon, since it almost seems dead!

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I did not know that so many downloadable 3d programs existed. I don’t think I’ve tried blender enough to compare em to other programs. But I love blenders workflow and the community.In my opinion, the people running blender have the betterment of this program in tiher mind and sooner or later you’ll see tools used in other programs used in blender.

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Tried Moonlight. won’t run on windows XP.

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Wings3d dev is not dead. Bjorng continues helping, just not as active now, probably. But there’s a team behind, doing stuff. versions don’t appear as fast as before, but they keep going :slight_smile:

Blender to me, among all these tools, is the future to look at, the one to stay, surely. Simply as is the stronger (for example:in comunity), and the most complete. It excels imo in too many areas to just think of any serious competition…(That doesnt mean I need to do all the modelling part with it :wink: .Once another viewport handling option is given and some extra modelling philosophy, maybe…)

Edit: Most of these great features are easy to overlook, but if you enable advanced menus in the properties, and have a close look at the bottom status bar where all the context sensitive operations are displayed, you can figure them out pretty quickly. Yeh I’ll try out this afternoon ^^
Not only that…wings have some amazingly fast methods, I didnt have even in Max when I needed em at jobs…and most of the deep tricks are discovered by yourself when working at hi pressure to finish a beta…Or very complex requirements of a model, to be done in no time. Knowing it very deeply, rarely anyone is gonna beat that speed. :wink: It has a long list of limitations tho. I just learnt to overcome them. I have some doubts on its future, though, let’s hope it continues being developed.Am ok using the latest version if no more dev goes on in the future (as I say, seems there’s heavy work being done in it) …just that would be sad.It helped me a lot in becoming a character modeler.Yet wasnt the tool with which I learnt to do characters well. Already hnadled well with others.This was several years ago.

Hmm I need to give it a try. I’ve modeled a complete drumset in Blender last week and it was a joy to do it with Blender -
of course it is.

is this a weak point of Wings? I mean coping with many objects and adjusting them on a plain?
It has its weak points, but this shouldnt be one…You can make that plane, and , select the face of the object “floor”, or any of it if has several, and choose “put on”, or use the key if u did set one.(if didnt, just after right click, hit ins key, hit your preferred key)

you can also set put on ground command, it goes to the ground of axes.

But seems you are just duplicating over a plane…If for making all objects with similar distance, you could probably use align, center tools, or move to saved to Bounding Box combination, or,faster, use shift d ( d repeats last command, shift d repeat last command with the exact dragging, of any operation ), if ur creating them as you go.(ie: duplicating in Z, which would anyway let em in the floor… (Z is not height in Wings))

How is your workflow?
Very hard to explain.I use it so naturally now that feel not very able to explain it methodically…I guess I use all my tricks learnt in hard times, and apply as needed, but often, as I can do a same thing in a hundred of ways, I do it in the faster possible, but if not in a hurry, just with the one I feel better at that very moment.

You’re doing the low-poly-meshes
Is indeed one of the better uses.But be prepared to use hole Material.

in Wings and then export it to Blender and there you’re doing the subsurf-mod and the final render? I wasn’t convinced of the subdiv’s of Wings but maybe I’m wrong.
The low pol I make is for games.The hi , for pleasure or normal maps like stuff.
With low pol you just refer to the low count cage. Yup, I go modelling in low and hit shift tab to preview in 2x smoothing…yup, I’d agree in that blender is better, but still does compensate me for other fast advantages.Indeed, have done so for hi res models: I model low model in wings, but go previewing (once you get trained, you can go with more time between previews…) , and finally, I export a well prepared mesh, with materials selections I know I’ll need in Blender (Wings selection system is imo faster and more powerful than in most softwares) in lwo or obj formats, but before I uv map in Ultimate Unwrap, or even just in Wings (or later on in blender, all methods are ok to do)

In blender I set it all as I need, apply edge split, a subdivision modifier, whatever needed. usually in any package the key thing is to handle a low cage for all and apply only a low subdiv in viewport and higher in render. Many ppl in max do so. I’ve done some sort of this in Blender, often.

I’ve downloaded gSculpt right now and it’s also an awesome pure modeler because it has the undo-list as a history where you can go back to every point, change something and then go forward where you were at.
Well, for me Wings ctrl alt z and ctrl shift z(same than in adobe Photoshop) are way enough to go back /forward in undo history, with some advantages due to the way wings selection system is…

I’ve styled Wings that it looks like Blender and I turned on the “Blender-like feeling”
I always use blender like rotation mode, weirdly enough,behaves much better for me than blender’s, in my case. And I couldnt deal with Mirai, maya, or Max styles that it has configured…

  • I like it that you can use even most of the common controls of the other programs (Maya, Max, etc.).
    yup, tho for many reasons, are not really those behaviours.

I heard so often that the small Wings is much much better than commercial applications like Silo or Modo. That’s awesome.
Well, I’ve tried Silo demos, and I think also Modo, and yup, while I was curious and eager to be “amazed”, I found silo’s UI not as fast, more Maya like(wings is much inspired in Mirai), and more headed for more level /building modelling artists.
And yup, wings is a free , bsd licensed outstanding modeling tool.

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um u can do loopselections in blender and connect im not sure what u mean by the other ones but im sure blender can do it or somthing close

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TopMod has just gone open source and can do many things that most modelers can’t.

Koba

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correct me if i’m wrong… ain’t daz3d a commercial app?

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The gallery of images made by TopMod looks very good!:smiley:

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Very hard to explain.I use it so naturally now that feel not very able to explain it methodically…I guess I use all my tricks learnt in hard times, and apply as needed, but often, as I can do a same thing in a hundred of ways, I do it in the faster possible, but if not in a hurry, just with the one I feel better at that very moment.

So, you’re mostly starting from the classical box and then extrude etc. the rest?
There are some other methods but I couldn’t get it to work in Wings:

You add a plain, extrude it (without sizing it) and click. Then, you scale the “extruded” face smaller. Then you remove the “inner” face so that you have an “empty” plane with only four edges (not filled). After that, you extrude the edges to the outside and start modeling (e.g. a human head).

But in Wings, it won’t work this way. I did so in Blender and gSculpt and it worked.
Maybe I’m doing something wrong.

I’ve also watched the gSculpt tutorial-movies and this guy is damn fast. I think most of those Wings-modelers are modeling at an incredible speed. I’m just stuck too deep in the Blender-environment (the selection-tools, E for extrude, G for Grab, and so on) and so it’s hard to start modeling that fast with Wings.

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Someone already stole my thunder and mentioned TopMod. Some people may not know that there is now an OS X version of TopMod with an improved interface.

Another modeler that some may not know about is MoI. You can find it here…
http://moi3d.com/

This was modeled with MoI and Imported into Blender…

http://www2.indigorenderer.com/joomla/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=18542&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=4d0f939617b2cd894c31093c153e082b

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MoI is NURBS modeller, am I wrong? UI looks very user-friendly… I will definitely try it:rolleyes:

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Before you get your hopes up, MoI is going to be expensive when it comes out of beta. Personally, I wouldn’t list it in a free modellers thread as it is only free for now.

Koba

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Before you get your hopes up, MoI is going to be expensive when it comes out of beta. Personally, I wouldn’t list it in a free modellers thread as it is only free for now.

Hmm I’ve read the interview where the author says that he’ll sell it some day. But maybe you’ll be able to use it for personal/educational use.

It’s an awesome program and it produces a good output. The controls are Blender-like and it is definitly a well done program :slight_smile:

There’s also a nice vector-modeling software for simple 3D-stuff called ShapeOnYou. It’s for Mac OS only but it’s nice.
http://ktd.club.fr/programmation/shapeonyou_en.php

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topmod , had found that before…my impression was it was good for some sort of procedural like meshes…

Also tested moi…I used to use hamapatch for splines stuff…
I havent adopted every 3d tool I’ve tested…only those I found extremely functional/uber fast in my workflows… As I used many: AOI, K3d, Anim8or, Amorphium (quite deeply) and really very large etc.

So, you’re mostly starting from the classical box and then extrude etc. the rest?
Not necesarilly. I like a lot its Octotoad primitive.The very last development version has soem nicer settings for primitives tho…dunno, I dont care much with what I start, is unimportant in my case. I often yep, in any software, start from box. In wings, I usually cut it in the midlle, as I know would be in center (if it werent you can center em,or flatten in x direction…whatever) I delete one half and activate virtual mirror and start modelling. As i mean now modelling characters, evenn for objects, I go activating or deactivating it, you dont need to sew it later, it gets that automatic…some times I just break th emirror temporarily and do somthing, and generate it again (if touche some verts in the central axe , i can flatten em in x direction in respect to other vertx which were still in right x position…One can also use save bounding box and move to saved BB. )

There are some other methods but I couldn’t get it to work in Wings:
To get the real functional workflow is not very simple, I think I took it more than usual as used it for all my jobs…

You add a plain, extrude it (without sizing it) and click. Then, you scale the “extruded” face smaller. Then you remove the “inner” face so that you have an “empty” plane with only four edges (not filled). After that, you extrude the edges to the outside and start modeling (e.g. a human head).
heh, you’re using the blender way of thinking…every tool has its philosophy…I have sometimes some sort of hot switch problems (a pair of seconds, lol) when I end modelling stage and continue in Blender with some modelling adition that I forgot…

Wings3d is thought for you to think in solids, extrussions, in quite a traditional modeler way(but no smudging etc, I mean:think in volumes from start)… You still can model from references, I did in jobs to model cars, real life objects and furniture, etc. Is not as inmediate as point modelling, but I had no probs. I used to set a pair of ImagePlanes , the dialog asks for image and generates em there. Forming like two faces of the inside of a cube. Firstly I had put a primitive, ie, a box, selected the front face, invert selection so to delete all other faces (u can also quad select from a more or less side view and ur done) hit del. Select the four edges, hit “9” so have nine cuts in each egde, and do a first rough aproximation to the ref behind. later I just go refining. I may extrude the plane once is more or less accurate, and start adjusting to the other ref from the other profile. I never follow a fixed procedure, i could have done this in a thosand ways, and what works better to me is not having fixed ideas before starting.I mean, every model suggest me a different fastest workflow, as usually , time is the most important matter.

You dont go emptying faces and then filling them again…Ineded, winged edge structrure, which allows so many wonders while modelling ngon volumes, can convert into bad geometry, which only with a lot of experience can be fixed. That is, no isolated verts, no isolated lines in the space. If you want them, ie, in a final, low pol model for a real time game, ie, a World of Warcraft Dwarf, or the soon to be alpha mapped hair planes of a low pol model, what you do is fill with hole material those areas, and the obj or whatever will export the things as pretended. I usually dont apply this material till the end.

But in Wings, it won’t work this way. I did so in Blender and gSculpt and it worked.
You cannot do things as you do in a tool, exactly in the other. Neither bewteen Gsculpt and Blender. I mean, of course you can with a number of things: Not with others. That’s because tehy have different workflows, different Uis, and most important…different strenghts…To me, a successfull 3d artist is that one who can get the strenghts of each tool , and use them when is ideal in a project…

…But that can be just me, thinking so, most surely.

As I said in the very start, in my opinion, Wings is amazing for character modelling. I model objects with it too, but I prefer blender, max, sketchup , other tools, for game levels or any building. That means nothing: seen ppl building uber complex game levels, and accurate historical buildings with wings, mechanical stuff, etc. I think, anyway, is not the aim for which it was developed, this tool.
Is not a jack of al ltrades, tho in modelling excells. I modeled loads of game objects with it, not only characters.

Maybe I’m doing something wrong.
I just have no time now to make a video showing how it all is done…

I’ve also watched the gSculpt tutorial-movies and this guy is damn fast.
I dunno if is the case: there’s some setting in vid editing to display stuff faster or eve capyure faster…long time since I saw those videos tho, but I didnt remember them to be fast…

I think most of those Wings-modelers are modeling at an incredible speed.
My boss even brings the popcorns,(I now can model quiet with ppl watching me, was not comfortable years ago…) when we’re lucky to need to do a 3d design…Not usual in this non game company now… hehe

I’m just stuck too deep in the Blender-environment (the selection-tools, E for extrude, G for Grab, and so on) and so it’s hard to start modeling that fast with Wings.
I use em also when I’m in blender, and sometimes, the gestures, sometimes, even the gizmos. When animating I think I use more, but not sure now…as you see, I tend to do 3d quite non conciously, lol…

Wings…well, I use “a lot” RMB mouse button. (indeed, the 3 buttons+wheel and combos with shift and alt really overused) I have allways advanced settings triggered on, and the preferences, quite configured. I did a vid some years ago about the importance of configuring it well, if want to use it to full power.But dont find it now…

So, I have keyboard shortcuts, but I also am lazy enough in many commands to just RMB and ie, for normal extrude, MMB does any command in normal direction…so is RMB, MMB over extrude…As we have d to repeat command (un can redefine as any key, even as yo go over there) , or shift+d to repeat even with dragged amount, very often is even faster. And anyways, I have set most usual operations with a key…ie, for connect mode (quite an advanced cutter to build shapes) , for move free, etc. You can model quite interfaceless if you want. I just have the menu commands fast enough, not like in other softwares, to not need a key for everything to go really fast. (but in other times, I used more keystrokes than now…)

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In wings, I usually cut it in the midlle, as I know would be in center (if it werent you can center em,or flatten in x direction…whatever) I delete one half and activate virtual mirror and start modelling.

Yeah, I’m experimenting with this method right now. But I didn’t finish a model with it yet. I’m just wondering: what do you with the “mirror edge” - the edge, where both of the parts hit each other. Do you join the meshes (apply the virtual mirror) and then “remove doubles”? Or do you connect the edges and create the faces between them?

I never follow a fixed procedure, i could have done this in a thosand ways, and what works better to me is not having fixed ideas before starting.I mean, every model suggest me a different fastest workflow, as usually , time is the most important matter.

Aw that’s true, each model needs a different workflow.

To me, a successfull 3d artist is that one who can get the strenghts of each tool , and use them when is ideal in a project…

Yes, you’re right. That’s what I’m trying to do. Currently, I’m studying the interfaces of Cinema 4D and Maya (demos for try-out).
Currently, most of my 3D-stuff is for personal fun and to get some experience. There are only a few 3D-jobs, I’m doing in my job.
So, I’m thinking of my next project as something organic or facial (maybe a creature). And so, I think I’ll try to do this in Wings at first.

So, I have keyboard shortcuts, but I also am lazy enough in many commands to just RMB and ie, for normal extrude, MMB does any command in normal direction…so is RMB, MMB over extrude…As we have d to repeat command (un can redefine as any key, even as yo go over there) , or shift+d to repeat even with dragged amount, very often is even faster.

Wow, that sounds nice. I’m also still using th RMB mainly (also for the environment-controls). I think I’ll need to redesign Wings’ controls a bit in order to get these stuff

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that’s what i was meaning: no need for that, it’s automatically welded, no doubles, nothing :slight_smile:
I modeled a lot in Metasequoia LE where I used to need to weld vertices, like in older versions of max. I may make u a fast video capture, but consider I model everytime different -not needly in the cleverest way, but as I go feeling- and may look as it goes in a weird procedure. I’m a bit weird modelling…I dont know if I’ll have time, but if I can I’ll try to do a fast video thing, so you get a bit of the main idea of the workflow…BTW, you can do these sort of things, just diferently, with blender or any other modeler. Is just that is in wings where I have more fun :slight_smile:

Aw that’s true, each model needs a different workflow.
usually. You can do all with same procedure, but is boring and non eficient :slight_smile:

Yes, you’re right. That’s what I’m trying to do. Currently, I’m studying the interfaces of Cinema 4D
Of that one, I like the rendering quality and the hair module.
Imo not so practical as wings in modelling, for the ui.I also think blender has better character animation handling.

and Maya (demos for try-out).
Currently, most of my 3D-stuff is for personal fun and to get some experience. There are only a few 3D-jobs, I’m doing in my job.
So, I’m thinking of my next project as something organic or facial (maybe a creature). And so, I think I’ll try to do this in Wings at first.
You can do perfectly with Blender, too. Though imo changing your mind from time to itme in terms of UI is good…

Wow, that sounds nice. I’m also still using th RMB mainly (also for the environment-controls). I think I’ll need to redesign Wings’ controls a bit in order to get these stuff
Is usually a good idea :wink:

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dont know if I’ll have time, but if I can I’ll try to do a fast video thing, so you get a bit of the main idea of the workflow

Hehe just if you have spare time :wink:

that’s what i was meaning: no need for that, it’s automatically welded, no doubles, nothing :slight_smile:

Yeeehaw! I’m currently trying to build Wings on my Intel-Mac here… uh…

Of that one, I like the rendering quality and the hair module.
Imo not so practical as wings in modelling, for the ui.I also think blender has better character animation handling.

Hmm I didn’t play around with the character-module of Cinema 4D but I thought it would be awsome. Blender doesn’t have a predefined figure like Cinema (or “Biped” from CharacterStudio).

But I’ll try out BlenRig and the Blender-inbuilt armature is nice indeed.