Hi,
I work in a little videogame studio. Actually we want substitute our primary software with blender. We all here love Softimage, a rally robust, stable, fast and capable software (actually I cannot understand how can I live without render pass…), the better IMO in Autodesk army, but new AD politics is too expensive for us, so we would like to test Blender.
I start testing modelling capabilities, and must admit, for simple mesh Blender is rally fast (rally like CRTL+Click extrude), but if I want doing complex mesh, or edit a mesh, start pain… Knife in blender is terrible IMO, I usually box modelling, but in blender is rally difficult.
Please, take a look at this video: (search “Grant Warwick- Hard Surface Essentials” on vimeo)
is a bit long, but can explain what is my usual modelling approach, how do you doing this in Blender? Repeat, blender look fast and, must admit user friendly for a simple mesh or organic modelling, but if I must doing a complex hard surface it is rally difficult for me.
At first approach Blender look stable and I like many feature (integrated sculpt tool can be rally useful). But modelling and rendering look to me rally obsolete (i.e. 3dsm introducing Ngon in 2004). In any case, I see many nice work doing with blender, and I think my approach is wrong, so, please, give me some suggestions about.
Modelling is missing some things as 2.5x is a reboot from 2.4x, the core has been remade if I’m not mistaken. There’s a dev working on a B-mesh system which is what most modellers here are waiting for, it’s hard to say when it’s coming but there’s a thread about it somewhere on the forum. If you need to get a robust modelling tool to complement Blender until B-mesh is here I suggest looking at Wings3d, it’s also free.
The updates on the bugtracker is going really fast now when Sintel is done so I think you can expect the next release in the near future.
Welcome to Blender! The learning curve can be a beast I admit, but while Blender may be rough in some areas, it is ahead of the curve in others.
A lot of the modeling is what is rough at the moment in Blender. A lot of mesh tools in Blender are on hold while waiting for a new mesh backend called “B-Mesh”. In addition to the tools, B-Mesh will make ngons possible. This will not happen until the current version of Blender (2.55) is stable and it is such a large project that I am skeptical about it happening very soon. (Though I think it will happen, but politics often stand in the way) As a work around you can use some of the add-ons that fill knife/bevel functionalities quite well. Please look at builds by Filiciss on Graphicall.org(http://www.graphicall.org/builds/). They have great compilations of addons including a wonderful bevel and knife tool. I usually just use ctrl+R to add loops where I need detail.
I would like to suggest a couple of learning sites & resources that would get you up to speed.
www.blendercookie.com
And these products (though for 2.4x) I found invaluable for seeing modeling workflow. They are still very relevant, but some buttons might be in different spots now.
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info_n.php?products_id=118
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info_n.php?products_id=105
(It was actually the Creature Factory DVD that got me over most of my humps when learning Blender)
I am in a similar position, except I am forcing myself to use Blender rather than considering it in comparison to the others. It is my intention that the pipeline I use with Blender get released (i.e. add-ons, scripts, etc) alongside the game to allow for free modding (i.e. install the Blender distribution with my pipeline scripts and go).
Frankly, if modelling is going to hold you up (and it did with me), you need to look at another tool for that purpose. I am using Wings3D (it helps I am an Erlang-skilled developer) for the modelling and bringing the mesh into Blender for UV layout, texturing, skinning, etc. The Blender modelling functionality is flat-out stalled (bar very minor fixes) until B-Mesh is ready for integration and a quick search of the forums will show the length of time spent on it so far, the uncertainty of a completion date, and community discontent that has arisen from this. Not saying this for a flame-war (though I would not be surprised if one starts), but to give you a proper picture of any delay in your modelling issues being resolved.
That said, aside from the modelling problems, I can highly recommend Blender for everything else, and Wings3D is a very intuitive modelling application (more so that Blender 2.49 even IMHO). And, if you haven’t already, I recommend taking a look at Erwin Coumin’s GameKit, if only for the non-copyleft blend file parser code.
Use Wings3D. Its an excellent box modelling software. Then use Blender for everything else.
In Blender I have found that I have to use a different approach. I had to toss away all the things I was doing before to model in polygons. Think of Blender as more of an edge approach. Extrude and that is about it. No real inset bevel or other things. The other approach is to get used to working at the object level. If you break your object up into separate Objects, then you can use modifiers on the piece like the curve modifier and simple deform. Then it starts to become more powerful at that point. After you are finished, join it together as one object. The other option is of course apply a modifier to vertex groups within the object.
XSI was the last commercial software i used too. IMO it is the best for rigging and animation. Blender is about freedom, it made me embrace open source and i also started using linux. I absolutely love Blender and how it is being made. However from a rigging perspective there could be more good tools.
I am going to start a side development project to improve rigging very soon, raising funds from the community. I hope there will be enough interest.
It depends what kind of modelling you want to do. Blender’s modelling is quite dated, but that said if you adapt your technique it can still be really fast and competitive…
Richard Culver speaks truth!
Admittedly the knife tool in blender has always been a bit poor, but has its uses.
I do a lot of game environments and find blender really fast for modelling for that. I use it in preference to Maya whenever I can for that.
For character work it’s probably easier to do point by point modelling, extrusion modelling or retopologise over sculpts (whether from inside blender or i like to use sculptris for sketching!)
Hi Fapi,
We are in exactly the same boat. We have been looking at blender for a while now as a replacement to our XSI pipeline. We decided to move away form XSI about 6 months ago for the same reasons as you. The cost of the licences have just steadily risen with version releases bringing very little in value in my opinion. There has not been a real release since V7. The second autodesk started bundling softiamge into its software bundles for free we knew the writing is on the wall for softimage.
Anyway were in a slightly different boat to you as most of our stuff is hard body mechanical stuff (ships and aircraft) so we don’t need the character rigging stuff.
You are right about the modelling tools being a bit lacking, compared to xsi they are. The lack of effective bevel and knife is a real killer at first. It took me a while to reprogram my brain into the way Blender works, but once you get the concept it becomes quite natural and easy to use. There is some nice scripts knocking around for bridge and bevel. Layers are also a little funky in blender compared to xsi!
For low poly stuff blender is a dream, edge spit modifier is lovely, your not having to constantly inset poly’s to get rid of horrible shading issues.
I did miss render preview, but now i set up my default blender scene to have a empty (null in xsi speaky) with the scene camera constrained to it with a Track To constraint. I then just move the camera to where i need it and hit F12. A little slower than xsi but not much.
I actually like blenders viewport navigation more than xsi, i find the quad view quite clunky now, just hitting the numpad for different views is great! The other thing i like is you can press shift when opening up a new window and it becomes a separate window which i can drag full screen onto my second monitor. Brilliant for UV’s and also keeping a camera view open.
I also find setting up blenders render settings a dream compared to xsi’s horrible render manager. Setting up render passes is easy and i like the node editor very much.
The renderer is lacking compared to mental ray. But for basics it does us ok. Complex stuff we will bring into XSI for rendering. I am keeping a close eye on the vray/blender export and will probably go that route when its matured.
I have become a bit of a blender fan boy and for a lot of our stuff blender will be a viable option.
good luck
Paul
Hello Fapi!
I’ve check the video and I didn’t notice anything that would be impossible to do in blender (accept n-gons of course and the bloody bevel). Maybe you can tell some specific part or just mail me or someone on the forum who agrees to help you? (apologies for English, this is not my natural language )
What about modo? The models made in it can easily go into Blender for animation.
Blender and high subsurf models is SLOW - sadly.
Blender has a totally different workflow.
I use 3Dsmax and used XSI until autodesk ate it…
After few months my modelling skill was totally adapted to Blender workflow. Ofcourse thare are a lot of workaround and you have to study a lot and know where take right informations.
no Blender is not simple at first approach, but I think is a good solution.
Box modeling, yep, sucks, but, think about adifferent approach
You talk about hardsurface right? I do this after work, take me few days to complete.
model is mad 100% in blender, from concept to bake, also the realtime is done with GLSL.
higpoly
lowpoly
Thank to all for this info.
I don’t know nothing about Wings 3d. I will take a look about, but one thigh I like in Blender is doing all in a single package without leaving (and export/import frequently error/incompatibly file).
That said, aside from the modelling problems, I can highly recommend Blender for everything else, and Wings3D is a very intuitive modelling application (more so that Blender 2.49 even IMHO). And, if you haven’t already, I recommend taking a look at, if only for the non-copyleft blend file parser code.
thanks for your suggestion, but we don’t use blender, but Unity 3d in our pipeline. In any case I will take a look at this link.
And these products (though for 2.4x) I found invaluable for seeing modeling workflow. They are still very relevant, but some buttons might be in different spots now.
I have Creature Factory, interesting, but my workflow is create a mesh and then cage, cut, add face, loop… so, I use many time tools like cut and component move.
In this tutorial the modelling is nice, but look really difficult create and edit a complex mesh, and Knife in blender is a pain for me…
No real inset bevel or other things
Arrrgh… can you live without? :eek:
The other approach is to get used to working at the object level. If you break your object up into separate Objects, then you can use modifiers on the piece like the curve modifier and simple deform. Then it starts to become more powerful at that point. After you are finished, join it together as one object. The other option is of course apply a modifier to vertex groups within the object.
Understood Richard, this make sense. I will try.
I did miss render preview, but now i set up my default blender scene to have a empty (null in xsi speaky) with the scene camera constrained to it with a Track To constraint. I then just move the camera to where i need it and hit F12. A little slower than xsi but not much.
Thanks Giant, I will try this tip
I also find setting up blenders render settings a dream compared to xsi’s horrible render manager. Setting up render passes is easy and i like the node editor very much.
Render pass in XSI look good for me, but nver try blender pass.
Hello Fapi!
I’ve check the video and I didn’t notice anything that would be impossible to do in blender (accept n-gons of course and the bloody bevel). Maybe you can tell some specific part or just mail me or someone on the forum who agrees to help you? (apologies for English, this is not my natural language )
don’t worry, my english suck
Ok, what I need and don’t find:
- Bevel (but ok, understood, must live without…
- knife tool (usually cut many time mesh but again, with Richard tips can live without
- Slide a edge or multiple edge
- Insert loop multiple loop and slide (if I’m not wrong, can slide only if add a single edge, right?
- Can I extrude adjacent polygon but separate?
What about modo? The models made in it can easily go into Blender for animation.
Blender and high subsurf models is SLOW - sadly.
Modo is nice, but after a bit customization. Out of the box is a bit frustrating. In any case, we don’t use for this reason:
- Poor stability and many bugs.
- Shader tree
I use 3Dsmax and used XSI until autodesk ate it…
:yes: eat is the right words. XSI is great software, autodesk underestimate his appeal, and they talk about XSI like “the best Maya companion” :eek:
Ofcourse thare are a lot of workaround and you have to study a lot and know where take right informations.
Where take info?
Rally nice models MmAaXx
One thing I hate in blender: “advice” saving before exit can be a nice addition…
About beveling, there was an addon floating around that added that to 2.5, not sure about the current whereabouts of it though.
There’s also an advanced bridge tool addon that has some nice bells and whistles for many situations you may find in modeling.
There’s a thread by Crouch about the bridge addon several pages back in this forum, I’m not sure how to get the bevel addon, but Filiciss included the addon at one point in the Blender builds he posts on graphicall.
Check Bevel Addon in Filiciss build on Graphicall
File->User Preferences->Addons->Mesh->Bevel
Win64: http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=1536
Win32: http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=1650
Check Knife Addon in Filiciss build on Graphicall
File->User Preferences->Addons->Mesh->Fake Knife
Win64: http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=1536
Win32: http://www.graphicall.org/builds/builds/showbuild.php?action=show&id=1650
CTRL+E->Edge Slide - Only 1 Edge at a time
For single loop and slide:
CTRL+R, click to add it, then it will slide, click again to apply
To add multiple loops(no sliding):
CTRL+R, mouse wheel to add loops, click to confirm
Not sure of exactly what you are asking for on this one, but you can see all the extrude options with Space->Search: Extrude
Not sure of exactly what you are asking for on this one, but you can see all the extrude options with Space->Search: Extrude
find it: shift+e , can extrude adjacent face in a single function, but each separate from other. The other issue is how can scale this faces? I want every face can be scaled separate from the other. If I press S (scale), polygons scale in a centrer position between each selected polygons, but I want scale each independently from others (so scale centre is the single polygon). Sorry for my poor english…
-Bevel, there is a modifier, and there is supposed to be a script for 2.5, but I don’t use it that often. Instead of beveling, I usually use the spin tool to make rounded edges and such. i extrude a vertex along a certain axis (the distance is the radius), snap the cursor to that new vertex and with the original vertex/edge selected I use the spin tool. It is slower than a quick bevel, but it works. It would be nice if the bevel modifier would allow you to choose more steps though…
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knife tool. Seems to work in 2.55, but you can’t snap to a vertex anymore, which was the most useful application for me. knife tool in 2.49 allows you to snap. It only cuts what you select. Shortcut “k” in blender 2.55 doesn’t seem to be working. I use space-bar to access it.
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Edge slide. press ctrl e, or space-bar >search “edge slide”.
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insert loop. Ctrl R for a single loop where you can slide along an edge, and click to confirm where the loop will be. Or W>subdivide, and in the operator field (3D view> T tool panel, down below=operator field) you can specify the amount of cuts, smooth and fractal.
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extrude adjacent poly separate. Yes. 3D view>header>mesh>extrude individual. Or space-bar >search “extrude individual”. You can also assign a shortcut to it. Shift E is assigned to crease. I hardly use crease, so I would change that to extrude individual.
Saving… Yes it is something to get used to, there are or have been builds that do give you a warning.
1- User Preferences / Addons / Mesh / Bevel check the box to the right
Then in Edit mode W to the specials menu and choose Bevel (last option)
2- Select edges, hold K and move the mouse cutting.
3- Vertex Slide addon from Chromoly. Look the thread “Who is this crazy coder Chromoly?” for this script.
4-Ctrl + R (wheel to increase number of loops) and then the new loops are selected
and you just slide. Select only one loop active proportional and move. Increase/dicrease proportional with wheel
5-I don’t understand. Do you mean extrude and then separate to new mesh? E to extrude and then P to separate to new object. Or perhaps are you talking about creating a duplicate? Shift ⁺D
I am 99% now in Linux but today I wanted an old model I did in max and play with it in blender so I was to Windows seven (just booted my computer in the second har disk) and I opened Max 2010. It was a funny experience because I felt the same I touched Blender first time… What… the… hell… is… this…shit! I just can’t live now without the way things are done in Blender and Max feels so primitive compared to Blender now. The only lack in Blender continues to be:
- Tools like camera tracking and so that with next project Mango (VFX movie) is in the list to solve
- Ngons
- End of reestructuring the code so external renderers like YafRay, Luxrender can be ported if you find you can’t live without it. It is planned a revision of Blender Internal to a real shader system instead a bunch of tricks that it is at the moment (as said by Ton).
Blender is completely fun. But it is easy for me that 3D is my hobby. Perhaps people stressed living of doing 3D can’t find the fun and just needs better tools today better than tomorrow. Then of course, if Blender has not what you want, jump the boat and look in other app.
Hi Fapi!
As for knife - you can select edges that you need and then click subdivide, the only problem is to fix the topo after that, but this is not hard and works fine.
The hotkey you’re looking for should be Alt+E->Individual Faces (not Shift+E, that’s crease).
As for scaling around the centers of individual polygons, that’s possible, but you have to do a little setup. You must first be in Face Select mode (in Edit mode, Ctrl+Tab->Face). Then set your Pivot Point to “Individual Origins” (it’s in the 3D View’s header between the Viewport Shading and and Manipulator settings). Once you do that, you should be good to go.