Funding Improvements in Blender

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
21

Sure, but that just goes to further illustrate my point that Andrew’s general proposal is so astronomically beyond the capabilities of the BF and the community to deliver that it’s just setting a lot of folks up for disappointment - especially with the momentum it’s developed. It’s like saying that Australia should put a 100ft concrete kangaroo on the moon or something. (NB: Not having a go at anyone’s nationality - I’m Australian too. Also Moon Kangaroo would rule. But 100ft of concrete moon kangaroo doesn’t come cheap.)

A UX/UI roadmap would be nice but I’d like to see it come from people who actually intend to implement it. Making design and implementation and maintenance someone else’s problem is bad karma.

I’m really skeptical about how definite people are that increased userbase leads to increased revenue. Blender needs an engaged community as much if not more than it needs money. Money pays for stuff, sure, but communities do the stuff that money pays for in proprietary software land: QA, advocacy, teaching people how to use the software, etc.

This is what I know about people paying for stuff:

If a person can get something for free, and it sits beneath a certain threshold of value, they probably won’t pay for it. Ask the music and movie industries - they know this all too well. :slight_smile:

If someone really likes something and is emotionally invested in it, even if they can get it for free, they’re more likely to pay for it but even more likely than that they’ll become an advocate for it. Open source lets you go one step further and actually contribute to the project itself. For some people, Blender appears to be likeable enough as a product.

But is it the software itself that people are throwing money at, or the overall dream that the software enables?

I chip in my ten euro a month because I think Blender is a worthwhile toolkit for anyone to have access to no matter who they are and what their means are. Look at the cholera PSA that got entered into the Suzannes this year. That could potentially save lives - all because Ton decided to make Blender available to whoever needed it for whatever they needed it for, and to keep it available, and a heap of other people said, “That’s awesome. We’ll give you money to keep this good thing going!”

You don’t get a dream like that with Maya or 3DS Max.

UI-wise, I like a lot of what’s in here:

That said you can only pick low-hanging fruit for so long before you have to deal with the entire tree.

22

Thanks, glad you like it.

23

I’m sure a lot of us already support Blender, but if there’s a visual, well thought through goal that people look forward to, it would be funded a lot more.

24

I didn’t think $5.00 would make that much of a difference. If you’d be willing to pledge $5, why not go up 5 more and make it $10?

25

PLyczkowski - Andrew : 1 - 0 . Andrew’s version seems too much max, and max is not userfriendly, at least for me.

26

well

that costs and time surpassed any chance i guess…

and now the newbie question:
All those changes and proposals… can be achieved adding dockable and pop-up windows -like gimp?-

27

It’s not like Andrew is making this proposal with the expectation that the Blender Foundation is going to pull the devs to work on it, or that it has the money to put into it on its own.

This is a proposal to generate interest, and see if a crowdsourcing campaign with real buzz behind it would be successful.

If the Blender Foundation took half of the current income (what was the quote above, around 70K) and used it to hire a good PR person they’d probably make that money back and then some. That’s how things work. You convince people that they want to give you their money and you get farther than just showing them something that’s worth it.

28

the only thing in this whole proposal that has any actual appeal is to make the 3D cursor ctrl-LMB. i dont really think that we need a major over haul just to achieve that, after all you can do it from the user preferences panel.

i Am all for a redesign to create some consitency, but there are better and more interesting ui proposals being discussed already, Mr prices proposal doesnt seem to benefit the whole blender userbase, if anything it seems his design has been considered around his own needs and as an artist i can see the benefits of a lot of his ideas, but as an animator or sculptor the set up looks weak and increases the issues that he redresses from a modelling stand point. if i am animating the last thing i need is to be flipping through tabs to switch between the dope sheet and the graph editor etc. i want my windows open across all my screens where i can access them in a pinch.
what blender needs is re organising, not nesiseraly redesigning

29

I, personally, think the UI is fine the way it is. In fact, the more bare bones the better.

When I work in Blender, I’m generally focused on the model I’m working and NOT what the UI looks like. That’s why I gave up on Carrara, they made their UI look pretty and that’s when Carrara started going to hell, the rest of the package suffered and now Carrara is so behind the times with features and fuctionality, yet they’re still charging nearly $500 bucks for a package that doesn’t work as well as it should and is bogged down with “content” (i.e. naked chicks with fantasy armor) that it will never be any better than it is, that’s why I switched to blender - it works, and it does it’s job well.

And now, I’m hearing the same arguments that Carrara users had and still have years ago, about how it “looks” and how how much should be charged for that, that, or the other thing.

What’s next? Is Blender going to go the route of Carrara with a separate version paradigm? A still free stripped down version for “beginners” and a pay-for “pro” version if you want to really get anything done?

Good luck with that. All you’ll be doing is alienating a lot of blender users in the currently growing user base. It’s growing because of what Blender can do for free that other packages are charging thousands for - NOT what it looks like.

Just my 2 cents.

30

None of this is about what Blender looks like. It’s about the usability. How smooth the workflow is, and how simple it is for new users to understand the UI functionality (not the entire software, just the basics), and how fast users can learn it. That is what this is all about.

31

Quite a bit of the discussion here is about making Blender’s UI more user friendly to new users. Having said that, a lot, if not most, of new users are not even out of High School yet, which begs to question, where exactly will most of the funding for the proposed UI changes come from? For the most part, High Schoolers don’t have any means to help support these proposals. Speaking for myself, I have, and will, be donating, but I really don’t want to see Blender’s interface turned into something that looks like a 5 year old designed it. I do however, like PLyczkowski’s design. It seems fairly intuitive and doesn’t look like your average monkey could use it.

32

I know a lot of Maya and 3ds Max users support this, and said if these changes were made a reality in Blender they would immediately uninstall their current 3D software and switch to Blender. I’ve seen dozens of comments like this. Also some companies said they would use Blender if it happened. That’s why this is important. I know a lot of current user like myself want Blender to achieve this, and rise above other software. Those of us who want that, plus current users who want the change to happen for themselves, plus anyone wishing to support this because they believe it will be better than other 3D software.

33

If we get word out and enough people agree, I guarantee we’ll have the support we need.

34

Well, if you consider the fact that the more users we have, the more “better” users we’ll have, since at least some of them will become serious Blender users.

35

Two things about Maya and Max. These users you say would switch if changes were made in Blender, are using it under the student program because it’s free. Second, after trying Maya and Max, I’ve found both to be even harder to learn than Blender. Now, in my second attempt to find out where exactly the funding for these proposals will come from, and from what group, who is actually going to be the ones that end up funding it?

36

What about this lines ?
Is still the right way ?

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.4/Manual/Interface

Blender’s Interface Concept This difference is one of Blender’s great strengths. Once you understand the Blender methodology, you will find that you can work exceedingly quickly and productively. Some features are familiar, like the top menu bar of File, Add … Help. However, many other features are quite unheard of in most (if not all) other applications. For example:

  • Blender windows cannot overlap and hide each other, one exception being a small number of mini-floating panels which are transparent, foldable, small, and dockable.
  • Blender relies heavily on keyboard shortcuts to speed up the work.
  • Blender’s interface is drawn entirely in OpenGL and every window can be panned, zoomed in/out, and its content moved around.
  • Your screen can be organized exactly to your taste for each specialized task and this organization can be named and memorized.

These key differences (and many others) make Blender a unique, powerful, and very nimble application, once you take the time to understand it.

The interface can be broken down into several key areas: windows, contexts, panels, and buttons (controls). For example, the buttons window contains context buttons which show different groups of panels and the panels each show groups of buttons. These principal areas are discussed on the following pages.

37

It’s not a copy of any other software. The idea is simply based off of the general way the human mind works with software. Other software just uses these same principles because they are true for the majority. That’s why some of them are expensive but still get thousands of users.

And by the way, that’s why I said watch the video before voting… so that didn’t happen.

38

Who says they’re using it under the student program? I know at least one company uses the paid version of Maya because they said so. I guess I don’t have proof for the other though… but neither do we have any reason to believe it is the free version.
Yeah, I’d assume it would be harder to learn another 3D software after working in Blender for years, no matter how good the interface is.
I thought I already covered who would be funding it? Sorry but I don’t get what part wasn’t clear…

39

Just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback and to let you know that I am NOT trying to start any arguments or be rude. If I reply it’s just to explain the reasoning for these suggestions, not to try to get you to change your mind.
Just thought I’d put that out there just in case anyone took offense.

40

Too bad this thread is about supporting a particular interface… Kudos on the little changes that make this one https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ScPMbHv8WRCU2znB7IU2l-W9hH-NLs5weQKLkjqmgpA/edit?usp=sharing good, PLC. It would be nice if you showed your interface 1. with various items minimized, e.g. the toolshelf - it would be nice if as the border were dragged to the edge of the window the icons get stacked vertically, get smaller perhaps, or would they become flyouts? and 2. In a light theme as well, just for variety’s sake, and since I’m not doing all the GIMP heavy lifting. It’s a really nice proposal, obviously made by someone who uses Blender for more than simple how-tos.