Graphics Settings using XP

I am using the current 2.48a version of Blender and I have to shut down the graphics acceleration in the properties menu of Windows. I run a duel boot system with Kubuntu and have yet to download Blender for that system. Blender was working fine until I ended up swapping motherboards. Here is my system info:

Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
Motherboard BIOSTAR Model P4M900-M7 FE
Processor Intel Duo Core 2 Ghz
RAM 2,048.00 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB

VIA Chrome9 HC IGP Family
Adapter Type VIA Chrome9 HC2 IGP, S3 Graphics Co., Ltd. compatible
Adapter Description VIA Chrome9 HC IGP Family
Adapter RAM 256.00 MB (268,435,456 bytes)
Installed Drivers S3gIGP.dll
Driver Version 6.14.10.0164-20.07.01k
Resolution 1024 x 768 x 60 hertz
Bits/Pixel 32

If I leave the accelerated graphics on I get a constant flicker when I mouse over buttons. The program works if I turn the AG off but then the menus operate at a reduced speed. Are there any software settings I should be aware of using?

Thanks,

BB

This is an integrated graphics chip?

EDIT: Okay, I just looked up your board and it is. My only suggestion is to buy any nvidia card that you can afford and put it in your system. The onboard graphics will cause you nothing but pain. I don’t think you need to spend much at all to have a happier experience.

yes nero it is. when you change motherboards you change integrated graphis also. just get you a cheap card and drop in it…problem solved. a $30 card would fix it, a $100 card would more than fix it. get a visiontek card, they have a lifetime warranty on them, if it ever breaks you get a new one free. infact tigerdirect has the ati allinwonder for $109. it is a hd3800 graphics card, an analog tv tuner, a hd digital tuner, a radio tuner, on screen tv giude, video recorder, video player, dvr, tv guide, video editor, and tivo all on your pc. and yes it even comes with a remote. you wont need a tv or dvd player anymore. hook it to a vcr and you can put transfer all your vhs tapes to dvd…

I would avoid ATI cards. Their drivers have been getting better over the years but they aren’t 100% with Blender yet.

Aw, I was hoping you’d say there was a simple software solution or a something in Blender itself. I could and would buy a new card if it was more than just this one app. I have enough on board graphics that other programs don’t sneeze at the new motherboard. Later this weekend I plan to download the linux version and see if that behaves differently. The Kubuntu doesn’t have any issues with the card either and it was to my understanding that Blender is and always has been a Linux app first. It is odd that rdo3 said Tiger Direct, that’s where I bought the motherboard. My old board had the Nvidia controllers on it. I might buy a new card in the future if I have any other problems. Hopefully the all those programmers will get around someday to making Blender a little bit more tolerent of video cards.

Thanks for the help!

BB

Blackening Bear:
I’ve had experience with such integrated graphics cards on Windows XP on my old computer (finally retired/relegated to printer-interface duty 2 years ago). While there are some shoddy aspects that you can’t avoid, there are several things you can do to make it relatively usable:

  1. Turn off mouse shadows and/or any fancy mouse trails. This is the most important thing to do in order to fix your flicking issues.
  2. You may want to also avoid using any overly complicated (i.e. highly detailed, and especially those with animation) cursor sets if after doing the above still gives issues
  3. Keep the graphics acceleration on. There’s really very negligible overall differences here, but it sounds like it’s better for you to have the menus on like that
  4. Avoid minimising Blender and then maximising again. This may not be that important for the drivers you’ve got, but at least for me, minimising and then maximising would usually screw up the view matrices, resulting in most of the UI not being drawn properly. This would often lead to unpredictable crashes (one time it’d crash, another it wouldn’t)
  5. Beware that smooth gradients (i.e. colourband/ramp display) may not draw properly. Same goes for the alpha-shadows under the menus and often the arrows on UI widgets.

Hopefully this helps,
Aligorith

Find a cheap Nvidia videocard that match your motherboard video slot … and that`s all.

Integrated cards are bad , unless it is an Nvidia motherboard with Nvidia integrated video card…

Thanks guys for all the help. I was really hoping there was a software solution for this one. I won’t buy a graphics card since this is the one only app not working with my on board graphics adapter. I suppose I will have to deal with switching back and forth until either a new driver version corrects the problem or I find another solution. Since I run a dual boot system with Kubuntu I will download the Linux version and see what’s up there. Sounds like Numarul7 is waving the Nvidia flag or maybe owns some stock? Just to let you know yes the old motherboard had Nvidia chipset and I purchased this one from Tiger Direct just last month. I didn’t think it was going to be a big problem and so far this is the only application that is not working. If I find anything out or come up with a solution of my own I will be sure to let you all know.

BB

You know that is about the dumbest thing I ever heard. Toss out your money for 1 open source free program. The only program that is not responding to my graphics card. :no:
For those of you who have laptops with IGP you might understand what I mean by this more over than a common desktop user. Or someone who has nothing better to do with their money. I am not throwing stones at Blender or the “Foundation” but when it comes down to it being the one and only program I cannot run on my system without GUI problems, I must assume sloppy programming somewhere. My two sons can run many commerical games without a problem. Including Spore, Warcraft, Guildwars, C&C 3 Kanes Wrath, GTA IV, Oblivion, and many more graphically challenged games on my system. Blender works fin on my husbands older PC with the Nvidia card but that is not my PC.

Now what I came here to say…

Meanwhile I did find another build that apparently doesn’t have this same issue. “Blender 2.5 SVN 21135” by DingTo seems not to experience any of the symptoms of the the BF build. And my IGP works fine with it. The only problem is the build is unfinished and while it can load my working files and manipulate them, not all the features are present. I am trying to contact the author in hopes he can shed some light on this situation.

For those of you with more intelegence than others:

=====================================
=  Blender 2.48 System Information  =
=====================================


Built on 2008-10-22 21:29:17, Rev-17183M    Version win32 dynamic

Platform: win32
========

Python:
======

- Version: 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Oct 13 2008, 20:50:37) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]

- Paths:

D:\Graphics\Blender
D:\Graphics\Blender\python25.zip
.\DLLs
.\lib
.\lib\plat-win
.\lib\lib-tk
D:\Graphics\Blender
D:\Graphics\Blender\.blender\scripts
D:\Graphics\Blender\.blender\scripts\bpymodules

- Directories:

 Blender home dir:
  D:\Graphics\Blender\.blender

 Default dir for scripts:
  D:\Graphics\Blender\.blender\scripts

 Default "bpydata/" data dir for scripts:
  D:\Graphics\Blender\.blender\scripts\bpydata

 User defined dir for scripts:
  <NOTICE> -- not found

 Data dir "bpydata/" inside user defined dir:
  <NOTICE> -- not found

 Default config data "bpydata/config/" dir:
  D:\Graphics\Blender\.blender\scripts\bpydata\config

- Modules: all basic ones were found.

OpenGL:
======

- Renderer:   VIA Chrome9 HC IGP
- Vendor:     S3 Graphics, Incorporated
- Version:    1.4 20.09.01q

- Extensions:

WGL_ARB_extensions_string WGL_EXT_extensions_string
WGL_EXT_swap_control GL_S3_s3tc GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_transpose_matrix
GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_cube_map
GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp
GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_texture_env_combine
GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3
GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_shadow
GL_ARB_shadow_ambient GL_ARB_window_pos GL_ARB_vertex_program
GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object
GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_texture_rectangle
GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_histogram
GL_EXT_convolution GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_SGIS_texture_lod
GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap
GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp
GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_point_parameters
GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_separate_specular_color
GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_fog_coord
GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_blend_func_separate
GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias
GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_NV_blend_square
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_NV_texture_rectangle
GL_ATI_fragment_shader GL_ATI_vertex_array_object GL_EXT_vertex_shader
GL_ATI_element_array GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side
GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_separate_stencil
GL_ATI_vertex_attrib_array_object GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate
GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_WIN_swap_hint GL_EXT_color_table
GL_SGI_color_matrix GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp
GL_EXT_framebuffer_object 


- Simplistic almost useless benchmark:

Redrawing all areas 10 times took 0.1643 seconds.

..

(*) Found 2 notices, documented in the text above.

BB

The Via Chrome has incomplete OpenGL support, wich Blender needs. Sure the extensions are there, but are buggy/optimized for desktop/gaming. I Know it, since i had a motherboard with an IGP Chrome9 HC until some months ago and Blender won’t work on it.

About 7-8 months ago, i asked the questions to support at VIA and them confirmed that their ICD driver was not compatible yet with some OpenGL extension used by Blender, and they recomended me to disable the hardware acceleration to use the bulit-in windows software emulator for openGL and wait for newer drivers.

You should try to find newer drivers from the board manufacturer, if they did their work, probably they solved the problem, otherwise your best option (if you care) is to request support from the manufacturer of your machine.

If you can’t get support from biostar, i remember that via/s3 has a forum where you can get some help… i don’t remember the address, but google can help you more than i can.

Regards.

J.

Thank you, I have done the hardware acceleration thing to death. And while it works, the drawback is an extremely slow lag once you get a sizable project started. I am beating the people at VIA over the head about this too. I have the most up to date drivers, and I don’t think it would be a problem if companies like VIA would make a more complete product to begin with. In hind sight, I guess I would reconsider a more expensive mobo with a better chipset than Biostar or VIA have to offer. But mainly I didn’t come in the forum to rant. I just wanted to let others know this prior to a new purchase, and there are options like experimental builds availble to offset the problem.

BB

Hey, BB! Did you solve this problem? I had a notebook with similar graphics card and am facing the same problem on Windows XP…
The notebook is with CD/DVD drive broken so, it’s not with me now…
I look at another forum, and maybe if you copy the file opengl32.dll from the Windows System32 directory to the Blender folder, please, let me know if it works! If you don’t have this file, please let me know too, but you should find it somewhere… :slight_smile:

Just a thought… try updating your video card drivers to the newest drivers, it solved my problems with blender.

I used to do that often… When my notebook arrives, I’ll try updating the drivers (they should have an up-to-date one), but I don’t expect too much from this… Anyway, thanks!!

I have the most up to date drivers. My household contains 3 workstations and 2 laptops as of our current setup. My little laptop (eee pc) is tiny and runs a form of KDE Linux which I tweaked a bit. But sadly will only handle up to Blender 2.42

The others are all XP service pack 3. My oldest son Josh has a PC with the same issue of an incompatible graphics card or driver when it comes to using Blender. You have to shutdown the hardware accelleration just to use it. He uses his PC mostly for gaming and has no interest in the Blender. While my son, Vincent has a Nvidia 256MB that seems to function well with Blender and my husband has a 128 MB Nvidia card.

@pedrodx: As for the opengl32.dll I did this and it has no effect.

I still say it is not worth upgrading a graphics card (on any machine) all software should be backwards compatible. My husband writes firmware for GM and Dow and if he doesn’t make it highly compatible he hears about it.

@Blackening Bear, Id not consider getting an NVidia dumb at all, if you are serious about 3d then get a card with good OpenGL drivers.
Its well known that many cheap cards only properly support a subset of OpenGL used in games.
If you look at most commercial 3D apps they only support a limited range of graphics cards too.

If you’re not serious you can use software OpenGL (Mesa) with ok display but poor performance.

Take a look for atioglxx.dll in the forum, there are some good links,
put the dll in your blenderdir restart blender and wow
Locke

Mods… Please Delete

I don’t really understand why this bears repeating… tell me how to shove a Nvidia card into my XP laptop and we will go from there. And if you can cram one into my Linux EEE PC then I will assume you are pretty damn good with a screw driver. People please read prior to trying to sell me on a graphics card. It only shows you are not paying attention. Thanks.

@locke: I just downloaded and trying it now… Sorry it didn’t work, but thanks. I know there must be a simple software solution for this, but too many people are just content to flip off the hardware acceleration or desktop users buy a $70 graphics card.

Also programmer DingTo wrote back saying his Blender build (read above) was compiled using Visual Basic and not C++, He believes the solution is the VB compiler has more flexable graphics calls than the C++. That is his opinion as to why I don’t get the graphic interference from his build.

@Blackening Bear, unless visual basic has a C/C++ compiler too (don’t use it but strongly doubt) theres some communication problem/mistake here. Its not the compiler used but the libraries linked against.

Its regrettable that so manay graphics cards have problems with blender, Blender2.5 wont use the front buffer anymore which is the cause for some of these glitches but not all.

Even so you have to understand that this isn’t an issue that can be solved without limiting blender to a reduced set of OpenGL functions. For eg. glSelect() - is not optimized on some cheap cards causing slow selection, so should we write our own rasterizing/raycast and selection code?.
If you complained to autodesk that any of their apps didnt work on your EEE-PC, do you think they’d have their devs support this?

If your on linux run blender 2.49b from blender.org with the wrapper script “blender-softwareGL”.
It would be nice if some windows users found a recent software openGL dll people could use. it would just need to be copied into the same dir as blender.exe

in other news blender VBO branch has been accepted and will be merged soon for faster drawing :slight_smile: