GUI discussion going on

http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Requests/Render_API
And in the develop[er chat

Hmmm, get your voice heard unless ya wanna see more confussion ui :stuck_out_tongue:

why do you use UI two times ?

GUI = graphic user interface, UI = user interface :slight_smile:

maybe good to edit the title ?

What has the link to do with :

more confussion ui

Could you explain that a little better

HE he, noted :smiley:

err SoftWork read further on about the disapearing and reappearing buttons per render tool used… To me it sound s good. But just getting blenders own ui of buttons is still needed to clean up.

Just sounds like a good time to think of projects

/me waits for the button clean up

My biggest gripe with the Blender UI right now is probably the buttons window panel alignment. It feels more natural when it’s horizontal (also, the header doesn’t fit when it’s vertical) but some things stack up vertically (modifier stack, selecting multiple bones) so that you have to scroll up and down to see everything. One thing I would really love to see is a multi-column view, like this:

OO              O
OO              O
OO  instead of  O  or  OOOOOO
OO              O
                O
                O

This way I could fit (for example) all the material tabs in the button window at the same time without hiding any of them. In theory you can do that by hand (by setting free panel alignment) but in practise it doesn’t really work.

It feels more natural when it’s horizontal (also, the header doesn’t fit when it’s vertical) but some things stack up vertically (modifier stack, selecting multiple bones) so that you have to scroll up and down to see everything

I prefer it stacked up vertically but as you say the panel doesn’t fit but more problems come when so many python scripts are set out horizontally you have to drag the GUI wider to use them. One example that comes to mind is the indigo renderer exporter with really wide horizontal sliders to change numeric values.

Do vertical sliders not exist in the toolset or can the GUI layout not adjust itself to the width dynamically.

Not wanting to single out the indigo script because there are many others the same that seem to go well over the top in GUI elements for simple input.

but some things stack up vertically (modifier stack, selecting multiple bones) so that you have to scroll up and down to see everything. One thing I would really love to see is a multi-column view, like this:

For the modifier stack, it would make it rather counter-intuitive. The modifier stack relies on the order of the modifiers.

How many modifiers are you applying? You do realise you can minimise them?

Actually, maybe some sort of scroll would be nice, just in the modifier stack. You click and drag and the whole thing moves up or down (within the panel)

Yes, that is a problem as the modifier tab isn’t fixed height unlike most of the tabs.

Using array modifier alone makes the modifier tab higher than the rest so (in horizontal mode) you either have to scroll or resize the buttons window.

I’d like a 2-column view mostly for the material buttons in order to have all the setting tabs open at once, without scrolling (also the whole window header would fit in the window). It wouldn’t probably be as useful for other parts of buttons window as they have less tabs.

I can live with scrolling in buttons window, I just don’t like it. :expressionless:

I think they should get rid of sliders altogether - they waste too much space anyway. On a zoomed out slider, the slider part can use 2/3 of the interface element. Why not just use the scroll wheel to change values or some modifier key with a mouse-click for those without wheels?

I think there needs to be less buttons in general. There are too many panels that need to be separated around to give quick access. I think having a floaty panel interface is much quicker and it can also associate attributes to objects more easily - like the paint tool in the uv editor. Instead of right-clicking to select an object and then going back to the buttons to set properties, why not have a contextual menu pop-up with options like drawmodes, subdiv on/off etc? Ideally left-click would be select and right-click would be the contextual menu by convention but it could be a user setting. Double-click could position the 3D cursor. The current menu you get with space-bar or holding a click has too many hierarchies and no selected object settings.

Hitting enter say could bring up a floaty render panel with all the render options. You don’t need the options until you render but it’s quicker just hitting a key to get to it instantly. This panel could have a little window that showed your render and a list of the render buffers with an arrow key so you could flip through them.

A tools window anyway. I hate having to drag my mouse all the way down to find the tiny little remove doubles button.

Also maximizing each window would be nice if it was just one key and being able to move the corners of windows instead of just the edges. This would be easier if all the windows had rounded edges (instead of ones with headers) so there was a gap.

Ultimately, I think it’s pointless saying about changes to the interface. I, among others, will always want the interface done one way or another. What I think would satisfy everyone is a scriptable interface so people can make their own layout. Using Tcl/TK maybe or even Python would be fine if it had zooming and some other elements. I think a standard interface toolkit would help a lot because some of the interface elements don’t work consistently. I will click some things and they won’t work until I click in a certain place. Some elements overlap, the scroll bars don’t work as expected - some I have to use mmb others lmb and the bar doesn’t follow my mouse.

A tools window anyway. I hate having to drag my mouse all the way down to find the tiny little remove doubles button.

In edit mode with your object selected and with your mouse in the 3-D window, just hit “W” and then select remove doubles.8)

DwarvenFury

Yeah that will help in a lot of circumstances but you can’t set rem doubles limit there. A floaty panel would let you. Same with the spin dup functions.

Another thing that bugs me is the slower/faster draw buttons. I always want the object to draw fully but it doesn’t remember the setting so for every mode I switch to be it uvfaceselect, weight paint, vertex paint, I always have to click the slower draw button 2-3 times to get all the edges showing.

no NPR render?

amen to that, things like aa, post process, render quality, a lot of material and texture buttons should be under an “advanced” collapsed menu, to save space and a LOT of confusion for newbies.

I’m still very much of the opinion that there needs to be a save on exit warning dialog if you try to quit with unsaved work.

Aint that the truth.

  • Why Ambient Occlusion is located in Shading\World Buttons? I can cope with that but wouldn’t it make sense to move it to Scene since it’s more rendering related. Every time I want to enable\disable AO, I have to click-click-clickety-click too many times now. :wink:
  • Further this would be nice along with rendering templates. (Yes I know there’s a patch at works in the patch tracker.) Generally templates are a good thing. I wish there were more of them.
  • Why not to make subpanel for modifiers? Modifiers could be located in Editing\Modifiers. This would allow arranging the modifiers horizontally and they could fit the normal layout, in which Buttons Window is used horizontally, better. (First modifier would be in the left etc.) Now modifiers take a lot of space vertically and I need additional effort to use them.
  • I think that grabbing should work consistently in every part of Blender in which you can grab. By this I mean that the user should be able to move things in 2d by locking the grabbable to axis like in 3d viewport. Example: g,x locks grabbing to x axis. g,y lock grabbing to y axis. Should work in 2d too. :slight_smile: (I know that there are ways to lock in 2d too but not as easy as in 3d viewport.)
  • Specials menu should be categorized and rethought. At least Subdivide options should be in their own category so you could hit w,1,1 to subdivide normally, w,1,2 to subdivide multi etc. I think it has too many items right now since you cannot use keyboard shortcuts to access items beyond the tenth (0 key).
  • One issue is that you have to write in places like BevOb etc. This could be more useable by making the field clickable so that in case the user clicks it, he can select the object he needs. Of course he could write the name as now.
  • I would like to have an autonaming feature. This means that you could set Blender to force you to give an object a proper name. Every time you create a new object or separate one, a popup window would appear and you could write object’s name to it. This would be useful feature to those who like to name their objects and are a bit absent minded. This could probably apply to many other things (like materials) too.
  • I agree with osxrules about Remove Doubles limit and Spin Dup issue.

Still learning the code… But if any of these changes are to be made people have to learn somehow how the button.c and other such files work… and make it public with updated content and newer example code than what was previously posted…

But they should be quicky accessible if you want to do preview renders etc.

I’d like to see some cleanup done in the area of the animation windows. We have an IPO editor, an Action editor, and a NLA editor. I think it would speed up animating a ton to have them combined somehow. Cluttering up the screen with three different windows just doesn’t appeal to me, and switching between them all the time is quite inconvenient.

I’d like to see them put together in a view that was somewhat like the NLA/Action editor or the Outliner window. Say you have a character, you switch to the General Animation Window and see animation strips for every animation in your scene, but you can expand and collapse things like armatures’ strips to see/move around/resize different bone’s IPOs. If you want, you can expand a certain bone’s IPO or something down to the raw level where you can edit the actual IPO curves, and when you’re done, just collapse the animations into a pretty single animation strip.

I’d also like an option to where we can seperate what layers we’re working in, and what layers are rendered so we don’t have to go and reselect all the ones we want just to do a preview of the whole scene.

Well, now I feel like a fool who just proposed some crazy changes and everyone looks at me and says, “Do you know what you just asked for?!?” :eek: Thanks for listening anyway…

Hi everyone,
I do hope that this post is not to old to post in.

I am not sure if there is any rule if a function goes into the buttons window or into the pulldown menu of the window the function works in. If there isn’t, there should be one. I think just placing a function randomly somewhere only produces confusion. All functions that operate in a window should be available from within that window and not from somewhere else.
So, the pulldown menus in the “User Preferences” window should be cleaned up. For example the “Add” menu should be removed and instead the entire “Space Menu” in the 3D view should also be placed in the pulldown section of the 3D view.

I am not sure but I think all functions are meant to be available from the pulldown menus of the specific window, if this is the case, it should be done more conscientious. So if you search a specific function you should not have to search though all of the GUI, but only in the pulldown menus of the window.

Perhaps the buttons window should be split up into several different windowtypes. At the moment the buttons window is a mixture of all types of functions of all windows. I think the functions that belong to a specific window should go there (e.g. the editing and object buttons should be integrated into the 3D view, but with the possibility to switch them off, so the current behaviour wouldn’t change much).
The buttons that belong to no other window type should get their own window type. Especially the materials tab should be expanded into an entire window, the materials window could then be implemented much nicer than the buttons are now.

All that I mentioned till now should make the user interface of Blender much more easy to understand and more userfriendly.

One more thing, assigning materials to objects should not be done by selecting the object and then selecting the material, instead there should be an assign button. This would make it possible to edit materials even when no corresponding object is selected. That would make the datablock idea of Blender more clear. The same with textures and materials.

I think that’s it for now, please do comment.
Greetings,
Mohij