Have you read THE ONLINE 2.3 DOC?

You should know that there is an online documentation of Blender
at

<edit>
http://download.blender.org/documentation/htmlI/
</edit>

The link is onlso on elYsiun first page!

Stefano

P.S.
I’m deceiving miself, noone ever read sticky posts.

I think you mean this one;

http://download.blender.org/documentation/NaN_docs/Manual2.0/TOC2.html

It has more complete chapters than the link you gave %|

In particular, QuickStart on your link says [to be written]
and from this link it is complete w/illustrations.

I think that may be why many new users are coming here to ask questions…

and RTFM doesnt really apply because people keep sending us to the wrong links…

Speaking of old links;
Anyone know if the first link to info;

Dead Link ~> http://oldsite.blender3d.org/search_item.php?part=tutorial <~
at

http://www.blender3d.org/Education/?sub=Tutorials
is going to be revived, updated or… anything?

Its the first and largest link on the page. We all click and watch our browser go through the convulsions of loading a dead page. Then we come here to ask questions of the people who are actually using blender.

NOoo that’s the OLD Blender 2.0 Guide, like the printed one and the above link you posted is not the one that is updated every now and then, but as a online Blender 2.0 Guide is great that we have it…

that is because it were never Printed or Added in the Original Manual/Guide, that is why it says [to be written]

of course, but we don’t want to make even more confused as you Might do, meaning that the Doc-link S68 posted above is even more Up to Date than the link you posted grin :wink:

RTFM? sorry?

no, we are NOT sending you wrong links, but You might find them unuseful because you might not know what to find or look for…we older users (and some admins) do know what we give you to start easy, as I have stated before, best thing is to Buy a real printed book of Blender, either The official Blender 2.0 Guide, The Blender Book or why not Blender Game kit…and not to forget, there are PDF Docs to buy in the E-shop to Download BeginnerTutorials and even PDF on the Old Printed The official Blender 2.0 Guide…

and if you can wait a little more, there will come up a new updated Guide soon, hopefully before x-mas, and that one I will get :smiley:

I bought the Blender 2.0 Guide (printed) and that learned more than any other Docs I have found :wink:

Maybe you have forgot that the admins are still working to get the server back since their was a Server crash not long ago? or didn’t you know?

And I can actually understand S68’s frustration about beginners not checking links or pages early enough before they ask questions…

you got my support Stefano!!

thanks for listening :slight_smile:

NOoo that’s the OLD Blender 2.0 Guide, like the printed one and the above link you posted is not the one that is updated every now and then, but as a online Blender 2.0 Guide is great that we have it…

I’ve gotten more complete answers to my problems from the older one.
I, and I assume others, have downloaded 2.25 instead of 2.28 to take advantage of the Game Engine. Vast landscapes with 3D images are sure neat, but many of us want to be able to move around within those scenes and have interactive 3D objects. I firmly believe the integrated Game Engine is what makes Blender such a great tool.

I’ve already got my bouncing box of letters to play in, and I am currently constructing a 3D model to animate within it. Newer isnt always better.

Maybe you have forgot that the admins are still working to get the server back since their was a Server crash not long ago? or didn’t you know?

I could turn that statement around and present it to you as reasoning to allow for newer members the opportunity to ask their dumb questions here. If you guys know the information is unavailable on that first introductory page, due to the server crash, why would’nt you expect newer members to come here to find their answers. I mentioned this before in another post but it can be repeated here;

There is a lot of information available, so much that it can take days to ferret it out. I personally have downloaded a huge amount of information. It is not unreasonable to ask older memebrs where to look within that information to find answers.

And, with the recent server crash, it is all the more reasonable to expect newer members to post inane questions to these boards.

As an example; UV texturing is necessary for the correct display of texture elements in the Game Engine. And most of the information about it is out there but hidden within a maze of links. After finding a tutorial that had info in it about using UV stuff and materials I just got kinda confused and came to the boards to explain my problem and see if anyone knew how to fix it. I got some good information here and the ‘Old’ Manual has an excellent graphical explanation of the issue and was extremely helpful for me. http://download.blender.org/documentation/NaN_docs/Manual2.0/MaterialTexture.html

And I’ll wager it is very helpful to others who are looking for answers.

Dontcha think we can cut the n00bs some slack? :smiley: LOL!

Besides, what else would Y’all post about if it wasnt for us n00bs giving you guys opportunities to express with eloquence what it is that you grizzled old BlenderHeads know?

A lot of times when I am looking for answers I encounter a kind of information overload. I probably am passing right by the information and just need someone to show me where to look so that I can look again and actually see it. If someone, who has been there before, can point me in the right direction, Voila! it appears again within my field of vision. I’ve read some things several times before it sunk in, and the info on these boards has jogged my memory enough to make it tangible knowledge that I can use.

Aheem! :-?

:o Blender3D.org says n00bs should come here to draw on the wealth of knowledge that experienced Blender Gurus have. Perhaps You should tell Blender3D.org that it is not the case, and that they need to send n00bs elsewhere. :o

From http://www.blender3d.org/Support/?sub=HelpForums

The most popular online discussion forum for getting help with Blender is the Questions & Answers forum at www.elysiun.com. Feel free to draw on the wealth of knowledge of experienced Blender gurus, or take a minute to help out a fellow user.

Questions & Answers

Perhaps you should create an Absolute n00b Thread

That way you can avert your eyes from the stupidity of us non-enlightened-non-gurus
:-?

There are several kinds of newbees:

1 - Those who read the doc - This group has very few members because they tend to remain newbees for very short time.

2 - Those who would have read the doc if they knew there was one - This group is the target of my post.

3 - Those who actually search this forum for their own questions, to see if they were alredy posed and asmered. If they don’t find, they ask. - this group is the target of my post, often they don’t find that question posed because it is in the doc, so noone posed before

4 - Those who politely ask. This is not bad per se. - This group is
target both of this post, they should knew that there is a doc, and
of Timothy’s post Please, Read this before posting any questions
.

5 - Those who plainly ask - I prefear former category.

6 - Those who ask badly formed questions - These are target for theeth’s post Help us to help you

7 - Those who pretend. These get flamed

elYsiun and blender.org works together very tightly.

blender.org is a developers site where you get Blender code and Blender doc.

elYsiun is an user site where you show your work and interact.

I have the strong and frustrating impression that people tends to
use Blender without reading the doc, and my post, which
I deem legitimate, proper and timely, were and is meant to point
users to have a look at the doc, both to find answer to the questions
they have and to discover Blender features the existence
of which they might never have suspected.

Stefano

I read the sticky post and I watch carefully the effots in the documentation dept. Every advance that is made is tracked and downloaded. Thanks for the work you do.

S68.

Thank you so very much for the online docs. Even though they are not complete, the pages that are there explain some thing A LOT better then the 2.0 guide ever did. I have started printed pages out and putting them in a 3 ring binder. I have only run across maybe 3 instances where I did not understand what was written or where you online docs made things MUCH clearer then they were explained in the old 2.0 guide.

If you would like feedback please let me know and I will point out where some of the things are still not very clear. I have been using blender for 3 years now. But DO NOT consider myself an expert. Some times I read parts of the official 2.0 Guide and I STILL cannot understand the meaning of a particular paragraph or section. You docs fill in the blanks.

Thanx SHABA, you can write to [email protected]

I’d love to have feedback

Stefano

I’ve been using Blender for 3 years, on and off, and the poor documentation is what stops me in my tracks, every time.

1. Bad writing.
I can interpret words like “Teh”, “Buttno”, or “Redner”. But, I’m still baffled what “deit” means. It appears in the “make an arm with an armature” tutorial - actually appears in 2 of them. I looked it up. The word doesn’t exist in english. What was is supposed to be? Dist? Deft? Set? Who knows…

Now, those of you that know blender top to bottom, I’m sure a lot of the hideous writing is forgivable because you understand what they’re talking about, but, for me, when I’m trying to interpret Theeth’s brilliant Toon tutorial, (which is a huge JPEG file, which makes printing out and reading near impossible), there’s parts that just make ABSOLUTELY no sense. The man’s results are indeed awesome, and I would LOVE to pick his brain for the knowledge, but unfortunately, statements like “2, 3 and 5 from the PRIME material” just make NO sense whatsoever.

2. Out-dated information
I appreciate that this application is in a constant state of flux. Improvements are made almost daily. Unfortunately, when the basic user interface (which, you agree, is confusing to start with) changes, buttons disappear, relocate to a different place, etc, tutorials and documentation lose their value ENTIRELY. If I’m 75% thru the tutorial and then there’s mention of a button or value field that no longer exists, I have two reactions: frustration that I can’t continue, and anger that I’ve wasted my time on a tutorial that I THOUGHT was up to date.

Again, as brilliant Blender Wizards, you peeps may not comprehend the dilemma. I am trying to get my learn on without posting a question at every turn, but, wow, what are my alternatives?

Even when I do a search, I read the posts, they’re also written in mad crazy caffeine spelling and the information is perfect if I were running Blender 2.3.

Sorry for the rant. I sincerely appreciate everyone’s help on ALL of my questions, and again, I’ll say, I would GLADLY take the answers I’m getting and update the tutorials and send them back to someone to post.

So far, no one’s taken me up on the offer.

I started doing the same thing myself a while back and sent a PM also with no response. I know they are up to their eyeballs in stuff to do but the documentation really does need to catch up. Have you posted at the blender.org documentation forum?

about documentation for Blender…

sorry for sounding harsh which is not personal ment, but most of the documentation is nowdays made up on free basis from everyone who wishes to participate to create documentation, and no longer supported by a company which Blender was developed by before…

but I can understand your frustration anyway, and if you want a kickstart using Blender I suggest you order the new and upcoming Manual 2.3 which is due to come after new year :slight_smile:

and if you do, you are not only learn using Blender, but also support future development!

go here to order!
http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=79

and a very happy x-mas to you! :smiley:

/.Z :Z

So the sticky no longer applies? Why put people through the frustration of the situation with the documentation as it is by pointing them to it when it is a poor representation of what blender is all about. Change the sticky to say, “Buy the book” in that case.

So the sticky no longer applies? Why put people through the frustration of the situation with the documentation as it is by pointing them to it when it is a poor representation of what blender is all about. Change the sticky to say, “Buy the book” in that case.[/quote]

sorry, I am not head of documentation, but that is how I started my path using Blender soon 3 years ago, Blender 2.0 Guide, but that is now as online docs as well:
http://download.blender.org/documentation/NaN_docs/Manual2.0/

more here:
http://download.blender.org/documentation/html/

and why dont you oxman help him more then…??

I mean that if I could pay for a book, anyone else can, and I say I dont regret I bought Blender 2.0 Guide, it was a kickstart for me…

sorry if I offended anyone…

No - you’re not offending anyone. I appreciate everyone’s help - and the great thing is that there ARE a lot of tutorials online.

I’m going to buy the 2.3 manual - of course, by the time I get it, there will be blender 2.35! hah. I definitely plan to buy the manual. If only we could get a discount because we have the 2.0 manual.

Listen to me whining about a free application on par with 3DSMax, ($3000!) whining about a $40 manual.

Thanks for everything. I totally agree that responding to newbie posts is frustrating, especially on the basic core things, but, hey, I’m all over the place now, trying to learn about armatures AND about toon shading, animation AND materials… augh. I should drop it all and focus on just one thing at a time.

and why dont you oxman help him more then…??

I mean that if I could pay for a book, anyone else can, and I say I dont regret I bought Blender 2.0 Guide, it was a kickstart for me…

sorry if I offended anyone…

ztonzy the great :Z offend someone??? You commit too much to the community for me to be offended by you :slight_smile: I respect your opinion and work for blender.

In regards to my assistance:

#1 He’s probably further along than I am :o BUT I would be willing to work with someone to get the ball rolling with the docs from the stand point of proof reading etc.

#2 To tell you the truth I am as frustrated with the documentation as he is :smiley: Most of what I am learning is from people like yourself, who painstakingly answer my questions. Plus I read the board A LOT.

#3 Have you ever seen the wages a hermit shepherd makes? We live mainly by eating moss off trees you know. Tree bark comes in as a close 2 entry. There’s lots of that around. I’m not complaining. It is my willful lifestyle choice There are some hard tradeoffs because of it :smiley:

Not casting any aspersions upon the community help either, ( I think it is just fantastic and very discrete) but I am a veracious reader and I can see that the blender docs on line really need help. I think that’s the only real point we’re making. They just aren’t up to the standard that blender is and therefore misrepresents blender to a lot of people who are curious about the application. Who would want to by a “guide” with the sample document looking like that? I’ve been around long enough to see that the guide would be good but others just scanning the blender get a strong impression from the documentation. I personally can deal with it only because I am a linux user and all linux users know that linux documentation is … well… it is what it is :-? :smiley:

PS I think the sticky should still be changed to say “Buy the guide”.

well - or - maybe “baffled? The GUIDE CAN HELP!”

to say “buy the guide” still sounds like “shut your pie hole and stop bothering us!”

yes, you are correct and i was only being ‘short’ which is unlike me :slight_smile:

I dunno. I kinda like “shut your pie hole and buy the guide” - it’s nice haiku.