How to Be a Positive Member of the Blender Community (don't be a fanboy)

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I try. Thank you very much. Remember to tip your waitresses (in both money and Blender modeling tips :D).

62

Shouldn’t that be fanboi? I am not a huge fan of idiots, but you cannot go around willy nilly shooting the dumb bastards, even though you would probably be doing evolution a huge favour. I suggest poison! And what the hell is endi, an antifanboy/fanantiboy? Extremists will always irk the mundane and everything irks grumpy/conservative people. That said, many of the really funny threads on this forum were reactions to teeth-gnashing, foam-mouthed fanboi posts and I do love a good laugh. All repression ever does is make things worse and shuts the introverts/thinkers up, which is a bad thing. Diversity needs to be cherished, not repressed. You’d think the world going to hell in a hand basket would be proof enough of that.

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I think most of us are, from what I have experienced here and on IRC over the years. But if it really takes just one experience with a bad apple for some professionals to shy away from Blender, there’s not much we can do other than continue trying to be helpful to others, just as we always did. There will always be bad apples.

I always try to ask myself before answering a question if what I’m about to contribute would help and empower others. If this is my motivation, I believe my answer should be beneficial. I try not to post when I feel other motivations, like annoyance about things said or anger. I don’t always succeed, but I try my best. :slight_smile:

I can’t do anything about those bad apples, though, other than maybe pointing out to such a person that the reply might not be very helpful and try to offer my help instead, if I happen to notice.

I can only recommend to professionals to just ignore such incidents and look to the helpful people.

64

That is not weird if you know how much social psychology comes in to play when we for example buy stuff. People look to each other to decide what they should do. You can be as professional as you want, you will never single out human behavior because we are wired to do certain things.

There is also something called a “sense of community” with comes in play and that is also important. Does a community have certain values where I can identify myself in ? Can I settle me in such environment when I need help ? Are they one the same mindset ?

The problem is from the moment you see something positive of another product. For some it is like sacreligious to say such a thing or you are trying to transform Blender in product X. For some it is extremely difficult to acknowledge that Blender isn’t perfect or that there is software that does some things better. Regardless of the company that have developed it.

And it gets ridiculized fast even in this topic I’ve seen a classic remark

Oh yeah?! Well I’m so set in my ways, that I’m unwilling to learn! Implement Feature X NAO!

I dare him to come up with 3 examples of such reactions. The problem is that everything needs to be pulled in the extreme’s , it is all “black and white”.

I’ve said it multiple times in the past - and I will get a lot of slack for this - but the Blender community I find personally one of the most hostile that I know. The community has never been a selling point for me.

The problem is also that because of the open nature of open source software - outsiders get the impression - that it is driven by a community that may not see value in certain important things or has the wrong mindset.

I personally think this is something that Ton sometimes stirs up such behaviour. I don’t know how many follow him on twitter, but I regularly see an anti-Autodesk comment passing by. I really don’t know where the general obsession comes for Autodesk.

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The problem is not about a request for politeness but that some really are being compelled to silence. That is exactly the direction of the title (now it has been change) and content of the Jonathan’s post. What John Stuart Mill wrote about “compelled to silence” is the very heart of free speech.

Instead of SIMPLY addressing the claims of these people he calls “fanboys”, he resorted to name calling and then demonized them. The title indicated that they were not “good” members and should consider the requirement of tempering certain claims to attain the “good” status. You can speak… but you can’t speak of this, and this, or in this manner. There is little difference between being told to SHUT UP and being told that you’re not a good member if you speak certain things.
This is what Mill means by being compelled to silence. We don’t all speak the same way or believe the same things. We are a diverse community and that’s where our strength comes from. All diverse communities have extremes… else there be no reasoned middle. This post appears to be as extreme as those it rails against. I don’t believe that Jonathan intended for this but as the unintended consequence it needs to be aired out now.

While I would never take the position that is described by these so called “fanboys” I will defend their right to hold and express it as much as I would defend anyone’s right to argue that their claims are unreasonable. I would answer to the CLAIMS not to the CLAIMANT.

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I believe John Lennon said something like “Give me a tuba, and I’ll get something out of it. After all, I’m an artist.”

Throughout the years, I’ve seen som many fruitless discussion about what is “the best tool”, including of course outrageous fanboy stuff from both sides (“Are you kidding? Gimp is sooo much better than Photoshop!” - “Are you kidding [Insert your favourite program or OS here] is soo much better than [insert name of competitor here]!”). This of course, is absolute nonsense. Is a hammer from Stanley better than some other hammers? Possibly, but just because it doesn’t break easily. An incompetent carpenter will still end up with crooked nails.

That being said, the open source nature of Blender gets its users involved in a completely different way than proprietary software. We’re able to follow its progress day-by-day, and I believe nobody can deny that that its progress is both impressive and exciting. Also, it seems to me that open source projects are much more responsive to user needs and suggestions. Additionally, if you try to gauge Blender in this context, you’d probably have to agree that Ton&co have created an open source flagship. Just look at the slots allocated each GSoC for proof.

But fanboism tends to make true professionals skeptical. For a good reason: When you oversell a product, pros will suspect that you’ve got something to hide. And if you’re not a pro yourself, you actually may be hiding something, only you don’t know it - because you’re not a pro.

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I really don’t know where the general obsession comes for Autodesk.

And let’s not forget Autodesk is not known only for 3ds Max, Maya and Autocad but for some other programs like Inventor ( Mechanical ) and Alias ( Automotive ) Revit ( Architecture ) not to mention it’s age and respect.

IMO this sort of comments should be only made public when people will actually see Blender being used to build cars, engines, buildings ( in general things that have a real purpose and practical use ), because as cool as movies are they don’t shelter you from rain or get you from point a to b.

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do fanbois dream of electric sheep? We won’t know because we won’t find any(nobody is gonna standup and say I am fanboi)…I believe inventing a persona and critising the behaviour of said persona qualifies as some kind of logical fallacy no…

I think all this fanbooi drama is fussing over nothing, sweating the small stuff.

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personally, i think what is worse than a fanboi is a fangurl (yes girl is intentionally spelt that way).
With Fanboi’s, all they do is something along the line’s of: “Oh YEAH! guy’s look at this! it’s the new version of Blender!”
Fangurl’s…they go overboard with it.
For example: “OH…MA…GOSH!!! SqUEeEeEeEeEeEeee!!! Omygoshomygoshomygoshomy…it’s Blender 2.74!!!”

Or so (not that there are any fangurl’s here that i know of. actually, so far i’ve counted none.)

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tyrant monkey,

I agree. Fanboy behaviour should be discouraged, I think everyone is in agreement.

But we don’t need to go nutz.

Some professionals can be snobs.

If a professional reads this forum and upon seeing one instance of “fanboy” behavior and uses that one instance as a basis for never participating on this forum ever again…

I personally have to question the scope of that so called professionals’ sense of judgement.

If a blender artists is truly in it for the long run then that said blender artist will get over the trivial distractions and progress forward with their artistic goals.

71

I don’t want to argue, but I would like to ask what part of my original post told users to “SHUT UP” or that “compelled to silence”?

My intention was to portray how this kind of behavior can be counter-productive and that adopting a more positive, constructive, and reasoned attitude is far more productive and provides a better impression overall to Blender and the Blender community. I would never want these users to “SHUT UP”, quite the contrary. I want these users to continue being part of the community, to continue speaking up, and to continue contributing. But I would suggest that there are more positive ways to contribute to the community.

I did go back to my original post and adjust the title and a couple paragraphs a bit to try and make sure there’s less of a “demonizing” aspect. I do not want to demonize anyone.

72

I agree that the point is not to demonize “fanboys” but

to define the characteristics

understand how these characteristics can be counterproductive

and discuss workarounds that can minimize the undersirable consequences that may come about by ignoring this behavioral phenomena

73

How to Be a Positive Member of the Blender Community (don’t be a fanboy)?

Repeat after me:

I am Blender user.
I love Blender.
I am an Artist.
Artists makes the difference not the tool.
Respect other Artists and their 3D tools.
Think twice before you speak.

Now turn around, make two deep breaths and make salutation to the Sun… :yes:

74

…silence…

75

Just to add my 2 cents, I think the core issue is more about how you voice your opinion. We’re all prone to fanboi/fangurl-ism, so the way I see it the trick is to know when and how to express your thoughts. If the human race itself could grasp this concept, I’m guessing the world would be in better shape :wink:

76

Maybe I just missed the flames, but by-and-large I have always seen this site as “civil” and well-managed.

As Blender continues to become more and more :eek: powerful :eek: … an interesting thing is happening to its perception: it is, itself, pretty much now regarded as “a professional-grade product that is used for professional work.” Not, of course, by studios that have already standardized on other file-formats, tools and so on, but by an entirely different class of shops that have standardized on it.

Blender wasn’t always in that shape, but I think that when 2.5x came into the picture, with its complete UI overhaul, that was the key point when people really started to take a second look at the thing. “Can I use this to feed my family? Yeah, maybe so.”

It’s a niche. If you or your client has a contra-indicating standard or workflow, then it’s not your niche. That’s a given. There’s no debate there. The value of the intellectual property dwarfs that of any software, especially on projects that last for multiple years and involve terabytes of data. So, “that’s not Blender’s niche.” Obvious. But it’s a great big planet out there.

I think, there is a niche, and now there is a professional-grade tool to fill it … an open-source tool named Blender.

P.S.: And never before was there such an opportunity for the teaching of computer-graphic concepts, and their technical implementation, in an actual freely-available software product that is not hobbled in any way whatever.

JM2CW, and if you interpret it to mean, “Well done!” you would be right.

77

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that you’re an anon wannabe and think that using open-source software and chanting quotes from historical figures means that you get to treat everyone like crap. Here’s the thing about free speech. If you’re(hypothetical, not you specifically) free to speak in an immature and irrational manner, then everyone else is free to tell you(again not you specifically) that you are an ass and/or ignore you. So while you’re running around defending people’s abilities to be rude, why not try defending our ability to ask them to communicate their ideas in a more mature manner?

78

+1, a wise man I once knew said to me, “Mike… it’s not about what you say… it’s about how you say it.”

79

I actually originally had something a bit longer in mind, but I got pulled to other things and lost most of it…that’s all that survived :wink:

I just want to say though, even with the trolls and fanbois/fangurls, and the various incarnations of Endi and so on, the Blender community is one of the most interesting and awesome ones I’ve seen so far. Of course I can’t say that I’ve been to many forums or groups either, but there’s an energy around this community that just makes it special - to see people across the globe pull together on a project or an awesome new tool is inspiring, to say the least. Not to mention that I couldn’t have gotten this far with my projects if it hadn’t been for the Blender-heads who took the time to try and help me out, so before this thread derails (like it seems to be in danger of) I just want to say thanks to all of you. :smiley:

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For an interesting read and discussion about this article, check out the PolyCount thread “Blender Trying Really Hard,” starting with post #1036: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72805&highlight=blender&page=42

These are the very people that work in the industry professionally and often get a negative impression of Blender due to fanboy attitudes.