How's my topology ? (Explicit Nudity)

It’s time to play how is my topology, I’m looking for C&C on the topology as I recreate this model, anyone who spot anything wrong or see something that can be improved, please write on it and point it out.

Only one post will be updated, so only this next post will contain the image if any correction shall be made.

http://www.air-internet.com/~awalker/show/topo1.jpg

http://www.air-internet.com/~awalker/show/topo2.jpg

Well, it’s certainly nmot a “traditional” approach to face loops.

It’s extremely complex for such an early stage. Each addition will be much more difficult than it needs to be with so many edges to take account of all the time. It’s usually best to get the major areas sorted then tweak the major details then work your way to the minor details, subdividing as you go. The more faces you put in at the start, the more difficult is is the make even simple adjustments in topology.

Her cheek should be higher. If you look on her front view, you will see the small smile creases the side of her mouth and running slightly higher than her mouth. Her cheek bone is above this crease, to the side of her nostrils. In your side view you can see that you have the fattest part of her cheek level with her mouth where the mouth should be pulling back into the face.

The loop above the eye area does not follow the brow line.

Torq’s much loved face loop tutorial (search elysiun for “better face tutorial”) shows how simple the loops can be and still make a good face.

Yea, I seen Torq tutorial, but it looks too much like those mask you see when you go to a play or opra.

So your only critic is how I’m going about it ?

Oh, the smile was just to look at the laught line, didn’t model from this front view. If you look at the side you will notice there is no smile.

I see the cheek, and sticks out. I doubt the poor girls face is that flat. Try to give it more slope.

-aML

I drew the changes you should make to get cleaner look on the mesh:

http://kotinetti.suomi.net/fsware/hippie//kuvat/topoalt.jpg

That’s how I would try it.

Yes, you right about the top of the head, I give your suggestion a try, sorry it took me so long to reply the auto notify isn’t contacting me for some reason

Yea, I seen Torq tutorial, but it looks too much like those mask you see when you go to a play or opra.

So your only critic is how I’m going about it ?

Oh, the smile was just to look at the laught line, didn’t model from this front view. If you look at the side you will notice there is no smile.

The main reason I critiqued the approach is because I think it will get difficult as you progress. As with most things though, there is not just one approach and this may be a way you find comfortable.

Regardless of the smile, her cheek is still sitting too low, it needs to pull in at the side of the mouth. The smile lines move around a little but the cheek bone is rigid, it is always in the same place. Maybe post the side photo image without the model on top and I’ll see if I can draw on it or if maybe she has really low cheeks, in which case your model is right but she doesn’t look like she has fat cheeks.

Looking closely at the profile view, you might notice that the nose mesh doesn’t follow the nose line. The mesh doesn’t dip in under the brow line and it has a tight loop causing a small bump halfway down the nose.

You’ve got loops in place for the eyelids but no eyelids are apparent in the shaded view. The loops are sitting flat.

The Torq tutorial only looks like a mask because it is a partial face with fairly generic features. Your own shaded view also looks like a mask because it too is incomplete. Done correctly, you get what you trace. Torq’s method will give you a gorilla if you trace a gorilla image :slight_smile:

Edit: My entry in the recent weekend challenge “Bugs” used a similar approach to the Torq method.

https://blenderartists.org/forum/files/thumbs/t_bugs_200.jpg
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55447&start=0

Here’s the front and side view

http://www.air-internet.com/~awalker/show/topoS.jpg

I’ve scribbled some suggested loop directions on the attached image.

1: follow the nose profile carefully. The concave curve at the brow line and the defined nose tip are significant. The nose doesn’t run down to a single tip it has a solid mass forming the tip. Also not the angle and length of the nostril and the enclosing flesh above it.

2: Note how deep the loops travel from brow to the upper part of the eyelid and how far they protrude to the lip of eye lid then also the depth of the lower lid. Also not the acute angle formed at the side of the eye socket, at the corner of the eyelids.

3: I can see why you made the cheek loops as you did now. The photo is not clearly defined here and it takes some guesswork and/or knowledge to decide where the loops should go. However, the front view gives us some clues. From the front we can see that she does not have fat jowls (lower cheeks) even though it might look like that from the side. I would suggest the roundness you see there is really just to the side of the mouth and that the vertical loops down the cheek would still have some depth and definition. They may not need to be as defined as I’ve drawn them but they shouldn’t be as convex as you’ve modelled them.

http://members.westnet.com.au/andydolphin/blender/topoSrev.jpg

If you look carefully at the photo, you can see a very subtle highlight on her cheek and a faint shadow where I’ve drawn the inner-curved loops then another highlight along the side jawbone. This is all you have to indicate form in this area.

Sorry, I made changes before you reply, but perhaps I got a few things more right, from keeping in mind what hippie suggested, I change a few things.

I’m guessing the vertex by the mouth, needs to go back more, is this correct ? Anything else you see wroung with the topology.

Another update, how am I doing ?

Ok, another update, I know there’s something wrong here, please help me.

http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/7660/topo19fl.jpg

Ok. Heres what I got.

  1. Too many extrusions in the eye region too early on. Focus on that later. (This is simply a work preference, but it keeps things clean)

  2. This is a redundant edgeloop

  3. I marked this edge because of the reflection. This will cause the flat face syndtrome I aluded to in my last post. (Sorry I wasn’t terribly clear about it) In order to get a rough idea of what I am talking about select this loop and hit the O key. Then just pull the edge loop back. A top down image would help greatly in this area.

  4. The eye isn’t that shallow.

The blue marked verts are also more redundant edge loops.

I hope this helps.

-aML

What you mean by redundant ?

Allow me.

You’re relying too heavily on using loops to form all the curvature instead of allowing subsurf to take care of it for you. You probably have two to three times as many loops as you really need and this means that you end up with complicated, flat topology where subsurf would give you “nicer” curvature.

This was the point made early on - less loops to start with, get the basic shapes right - very right - then add sub-loops where you really need to tweak the topology and where that tweaking can’t be achived with a bisic mesh (eyes, nose, mouth, ears are prime candidates for this buit there are other areas where an extra loop makes a little complexity possible).

Modelling is probably best approached the way sculptors approach their task. They don’t just grab a lump of clay or block of stone and carve out an eye then a nose then a mouth and so on. They chip it to basic head shape, then they chip away to form a rough brow and nose shape then they just keep chipping until they get down to etching out wrinkles. As the famous painter/tutor, Helen Van Wyk, used to say “start with a broom, finish with a needle”.

The reality is, as devastating as it sounds, you could probably finish this quicker by starting from scratch and rebuilding with less loops - but that’s just an opinion. That said, the cheek, nose and mouth are looking much better but the brow above the nose is still not right.

So, I need to delete them and keep them basic ?

How’s that ? What about the brow teach ?

To answer your question about redundant: In this case, redundant means that you have an extra loop doing the same job as a different loop and therefore is not neccessary and can be removed.

I must say that I like the way your topology is coming along. I am concerned about your choice of faces near the edge of the mouth. I understand that you probably have set them up as they are to achieve the specific look you are going for. However, they will very likely become very troublesome if you plan to add more edge loops around the mouth, for more detail. Also, I’m not certain of this, but you might run into animation problems with subsurf deformations in that area. What I’m saying is that the mouth looks pretty good right now, but if you want to animate, or even simply change the mouth for different moods, you may run into problems in the future. Also, I recommend trying to clean up what looks like a tri near the mouth.

I"ll try to show you what I’m talking about:

http://dan_stoyer.home.comcast.net/help/face_edge_loops.jpg

One last thing, I too really recommend Torq’s technique, it’s what I use and I think you will be able to get identical results with fewer future headaches. I know that technique has been mentioned several times so I won’t say anything about it again. I promise! :slight_smile:

Hope this helps!