Human Progress

[Blenderpunk (Marlon)]

Wait, this is not a simulation you actually sculpted all those wrinkles?

[obsurveyor]

It’s not a simulation, see:

Human Progress

Thanks everyone, The two wrinkle maps are baked from separate sculpts made in Blender. Not my best work… I haven’t properly investigated the new sculpting tools yet, and it was only a test after all. [Wrinkle Sculpts] I tried three methods for baking the height maps: Bake from Multires, a trick that uses Shrinkwrap, and the old Blender Render baking in 2.79. 2.79 did the best job, followed by the Shrinkwrap technique. Bake from Multires on its own was not good at all. Well technically …

[Blenderpunk (Marlon)]

Dang, that is such a clever way to use all these technologies! It is so smooth and satisfying to watch the looping animation.

I would imagine face scanning people in various extreme face poses would also be a way to capture all those wrinkles. So instead of simulating you would have this, how would you call this method? Is this method less demanding on your system than simulating?

[MichaelBenDavid (Michael Colina)]

yep you can do a better interpolation, you have several options you can play around, and yeah is possible to activate bones in the way you describe, but i am not sure what effect you want exactly but it is possible, tho i am still learning to use this, yeah you can basicly use one single bone for execute stuff as the same time and blending them, adding what values you want to something that was impossible to do easily with vanilla drivers…

hey btw when you finish working on the wrinkles system, i think i have someone to offer you a little job in our team, we are producing a short film, and its has realistic characters as heck, i think we could use some of your skills and knowledge, i am the main rigger and i am trying to develop close realism to yours specially the deformations and facial rig, or probably even better but and i am still struggling myself about on how to do such thing properly without help, also there also animators and character artist here btw… PM me for more info…

btw here is a course that may be someone may find useful for facial rigging https://flippednormals.com/downloads/face-rigging-in-blender-tutorial/ i have it, it shows a similar workflow to create a wrinkles system, but with normal maps (in this case for a game engine) but its kinda the same workflow you did, sculpt the expressions in zbrush and import them in blender, join as shapes, and then create a driven materials similar as you did…

[yolao]

@ChrisJones

@yolao

Will the wrinkle maps setup be included in the Face Rig in gumroad or the Face Rig with wrinkle maps will be a different asset with a different price?

Not sure yet, I need to progress the project further to see what makes the most sense in the longer term.

So you are not going to release the wrinkle maps setup yet?..

Sorry for asking. No pressure. Is just that i may have some money to buy the face rig and i really need to know if the wrinkle maps setup will be included or not.

Thanks.

[ChrisJones]

@Blenderpunk

Is this method less demanding on your system than simulating

I haven’t tried simulating it, but this way would be far less demanding when animating at least, because you can preview with bump maps while using the lowest subdivision level.

@MichaelBenDavid

i am not sure what effect you want exactly but it is possible

I can’t remember the exact circumstances but I think I was wanting a corrective shape to come into play when two other shapes are in effect. It came up a few times while doing the face, and I had to add extra controls that could otherwise be obviated.

@MichaelBenDavid

i think i have someone to offer you a little job

Thanks for mentioning it, my hands are going to be full for some time though I’m afraid…

@yolao

So you are not going to release the wrinkle maps setup yet?

It will probably go one of two ways: either a node and masks upgrade that can be added on to the existing face, or it will be added to it as part of the base feature set.

It’s unlikely to exist only as a separate wrinkle-enabled mesh/rig, but if it has to be that then there would likely be an upgrade path. For now I’m thinking it will be just the nodes and masks without the wrinkle image maps, for sculpting/painting your own.

Whichever way it goes it could have long-lasting ramifications, so I have to wait until I have a better overall picture first. You could always have a go at reproducing the setup yourself in the meant time of course.

[yolao]

@ChrisJones

It will probably go one of two ways: either a node and masks upgrade that can be added on to the existing face, or it will be added to it as part of the base feature set.

It’s unlikely to exist only as a separate wrinkle-enabled mesh/rig, but if it has to be that then there would likely be an upgrade path. For now I’m thinking it will be just the nodes and masks without the wrinkle image maps, for sculpting/painting your own.

Whichever way it goes it could have long-lasting ramifications, so I have to wait until I have a better overall picture first. You could always have a go at reproducing the setup yourself in the meant time of course.

Yes, when i buy a fantastic asset like the ones you have, is not for use it per se but for study it and make my own.

You mention that you are thinking that it could be just the nodes and masks with out the wrinkle image. So with that setup, once you have your own wrinkle map, is easy to apply it to all the shapes…, or do you have to apply it one by one to all the shapekeys?

Thanks

[Leo_Mozoloa]

Have you seen this ?

https://developer.blender.org/rBec6a9322e8723b906089f02ff76b04a7bb7d136f

Following the creasing problems with @shteeve plugin I submitted a detail report to the devs and they seem to have fixed it, not sure if it’s in a release yet but it might be worth a try !

[ChrisJones]

@yolao

So with that setup, once you have your own wrinkle map, is easy to apply it to all the shapes…, or do you have to apply it one by one to all the shapekeys?

It should just be a matter of loading in your two (or three) wrinkle images.

@Leo_Mozoloa

Have you seen this ?

https://developer.blender.org/rBec6a9322e8723b906089f02ff76b04a7bb7d136f

Yeah I think that’s related to the stepping issue if I’m not mistaken. That was still there last I checked, but the creasing follows the topology, hence why I think it’s caused by the vertex group falloffs being linear (since there’s a sharp change in value at each edge, which manifests as a sharp crease when vertex groups are used for displacement).

[yolao]

-Does the face rig has the option to push inward the lips (lip suck) of just one side (left or right, up or down) and not just the whole lips together?.. see this example. Although technically that´s a bite but is just an example of one side of one of the lips going inward.

-Checking the Lips controller on the “Face Rig Reference Chart” there are shapes of “pout, pucker, purse, full pucker”, can you please show a little video of those in action. I know that there is a great video showing the whole face rig but i will like to see the control action alone.

-Speaking of showing the actions (shapes) of one control. Have you consider making a video going through all individual controls, similar perhaps to a recent video of MetaHuman for Unreal Engine where they show each control in succession and some combinations.

Thanks

[ChrisJones]

I’m not sure if it’s anatomically possible for a lower lip to only pull in on one side (I certainly can’t do it), but it can position the lip into what would be the first part of that action.

The second part would be for the teeth to clamp down on that bit of the lip; the third part would be for the un-clamped part of the lip to relax back out to its rest position. Considering you can bite your lips at any point all the way around your mouth, catering for that would be a fairly difficult prospect… so for now at least, you’d need to make a custom shape key for that.

@yolao

Have you consider making a video going through all individual controls

Cosidered, yes. Found time… no.

[yolao]

Thanks. When you have time, please consider a little video of just this second request of just one controller, which is the lips controller. Thanks again

@yolao

-Checking the Lips controller on the “Face Rig Reference Chart” there are shapes of “pout, pucker, purse, full pucker”, can you please show a little video of those in action. I know that there is a great video showing the whole face rig but i will like to see the control action alone.

[ChrisJones]

[MichaelBenDavid (Michael Colina)]

how are you blending several shapeskey for that? btw also in what percentage your face rig is composed of deform bones vs shapekey only deformations?

[BMaverick]

@ChrisJones

I’m not sure if it’s anatomically possible for a lower lip to only pull in on one side (I certainly can’t do it),

I can, assuming we’re using the same meaning of pull in, but when I do, it pushes the other side out and up a bit.

[yolao]

Great, thanks for the video showing the lips controller.

[yolao]

@BMaverick

@ChrisJones

I’m not sure if it’s anatomically possible for a lower lip to only pull in on one side (I certainly can’t do it),

I can, assuming we’re using the same meaning of pull in, but when I do, it pushes the other side out and up a bit.

I also can do it easily. In my case, i can push inward (suck in), just the left side or the right side of the lips but with the upper and lower lips at the same time.

If i want to push inward just one of the lips i have to open a bit the mouth then i can push inward the left or right side of the lower lips.

Personally i like to have this asymmetry in my face rigs.

[ChrisJones]

@MichaelBenDavid

how are you blending several shapeskey for that?

Drivers, with little expressions that add/subtract shapes to/from one another.

@MichaelBenDavid

btw also in what percentage your face rig is composed of deform bones vs shapekey only deformations?

All shape keys except for a few bones for the eyes and one for the jaw.

@BMaverick

I can, assuming we’re using the same meaning of pull in, but when I do, it pushes the other side out and up a bit.

@yolao

I also can do it easily.

Ok I will need to witness this phenomenon for myself… anyone care to demonstrate?

[xalener]

It’s not so much the pulling of the lip into the mouth that’s happening voluntarily as it is the contraction of the depressor labii inferioris. Activate that muscle on one side of your face, and your lower lip tips in that direction. The opposite side tilts upward. Then you contract that obicularis oris to bring it home.

I had to look these muscles up btw im not tryna fool anyone lmao

[ChrisJones]

Yeah that’s what’s being demoed in my video above. The question is whether @BMaverick and @yolao are capable of controlling their Obicularis Oris in such a way that only one side of the lower lip is pulled into the mouth (as opposed to pulling the whole lip inward, and tilting it side to side).