I just can’t believe this kind of crap. The fact that ANY people have been there for 3 or more years and/or havn’t been charged with a crime is sickening, and then tack on the abuse… it’s beyond anything I can put in words. I don’t know about you all, but when you have no evidence that somebody did something, you don’t hold them in prison just because they might have for years… wtf is this crap.
Pooba
I agree with your outrage;
However, Desecrating the Quran is the least of the human rights violations.
It’s odd how the news pointed out so much about what they did to the holy book of Islam, but laid out very little background as to little details like torturing, executions, etc.
i presume you guys are american?
Guantanimo bayis the least of your worries, you have detention centers around the US on US soil where people are “not charged”, “not allowed a lawyer” and “not allowed to contact anyone”
these things have been going on since the day of 9-11, and the US now has no laws (not even the constitution) to prevent this from happening.
the patriot act now allows for all of it to happen.
the US unsigned all human rights agreements, is not a party to the geneva convention, does not recognise the international war crimes court. (which it helps enforce upon other countries doing these things)
why?
because the US is in sooo many violations of human rights, war crimes… that if they were signed up to these treaties, they would find themselves in court very quickly.
above and beyond this, the nuclear non proliferation treaty has been unsigned by the US, and the kyoto protocol was unsigned by the US.
you guys wonder why your government has made you the most hated country in the world?
Alltaken
The Kyoto protocal was not “unsigned” because it was never signed in the first place.
Don’t talk so patronizingly like there aren’t people who know, the results of the last election show quite obviously that there isn’t 100% support for the Bush administration and all of the evil BS they are doing under the veil of lies and secrecy.
Do you really think New Zealand would be any better if they were the most powerful country in the world? I doubt it. With great power comes great corruption no matter where it is.
Big deal Pooba, the article said these idiots were caught on the field of battle, they get what they deserve. And as far as the abuse of the Quran, you forgot to mention that the article also said there were “15 cases of detainees mishandling their own Qurans”. Those poor angels.
Besides why is that we Christians always have to respect Muslims and they never respect us. For example, if a Christian woman goes to a silly Islamic country she is forced to wear the veil, but when a Fundamentailst Islamic woman comes a Christian country, no one forces her to take off the veil. And frankly she should out of respect to us Christians. Like the old saying goes when in Rome do as the Romans. We should follow the example of the French, Vive L’France! Ban the Veil! 
I think I’ll burn a bible tonight.
Does it stink where your head is, by chance?
note: The media made up the bit about the Quran being flushed in an effort to once again make look like we were having them live under the worst condisions, however most of then are living better in the prisons than before. they get free food, shelter, running water, and they get to practice thire religion. it would take one heck of a toilet to flush a book that large.
What do you do if you know people have done something wrong but don’t have physical evidence to prove it? I certainly wouldn’t want them to get away with it.
Imagine if someone abused you as a kid and you knew it was them but you didn’t have one shred of evidence, would you just accept it and move on? I certainly wouldn’t, I’d be out for revenge. You don’t know if some of those people killed American troops over in Iraq. How do you go about proving that when it’s an eyewitness event?
Lack of evidence does not mean we can presume them innocent. I don’t think that the American soldiers would just pick innocent people off the streets and detain them.
Lol, I don’t think a country that can be wiped out by a fat man farting in the Tasman Sea wll ever be that powerful. But you’re right, I don’t think it matters which country it is, there will be corruption somewhere. I think people just like to target America because the majority of them are supposedly fighting for truth, justice and the American way (I just realised that statement sort of implies the former two are not part of the latter).
Alltaken, It’s all very well saying that not signing this agreement and that is a bad thing but in the UK, it’s usually criminals who take advantage of the agreements and so it becomes the victims who get punished. IMO the European convention on human rights is a piece of sh*t. There were prisoners who were given thousands of pounds compensation for having to slop out i.e. take their waste in a bucket from the toilet in their cells to be disposed of - something that most caravaners have to do. IMO prisoners should be made to do that sort of thing normally. Regularly I read about prisoners complaining because they are bored in prison or the environment is too drab or the guards aren’t nice to them or they don’t have comfy beds etc. and they are using taxpayers money to fund their claims based on human rights agreements. We should have a common sense agreement whereby people stop abiding by fixed rules and start judging situations on an individual basis.
I agree with that. Immigration is a big problem in the UK at the moment. One thing that makes people here so angry is when they are treated so much better than natives. One thing that really got to me was when an immigrant family was put into a £700,000 studio apartment for free when most people in this country can’t even afford to get onto the bottom of the property ladder. What made it worse is they weren’t skilled workers - they were unemployed. Would any of us get that treatment where they came from?
Then you’ve got people banning Christian festivals and assemblies in school so as not to offend Muslims all the while there are Muslims preaching anti-Western sermons in the streets of London getting thousands of pounds worth of benefits because of their large families. It’s all f*cked up.
Not necessarily. Imagine if I had a religion that commanded me to walk around naked. Should I be offended if I’m told I have to wear clothes to school? I don’t think so. There are certain forms of dress that are not acceptable for functional reasons e.g. if they are distracting or likely to incite segregation or racial hatred.
Not necessarily. Imagine if I had a religion that commanded me to walk around naked. Should I be offended if I’m told I have to wear clothes to school? I don’t think so. There are certain forms of dress that are not acceptable for functional reasons e.g. if they are distracting or likely to incite segregation or racial hatred.[/quote]
If anything we’re closer to walking around naked than they are, they’re only asking for the right to be covered up. It isn’t freaking distracting unless shiny things are also distracting and it wouldn’t incite racial hatred if (instead of making such a huge controversy about it) the children could simply be educated about cultural respect like I was even in my tiny little school. I think if it weren’t for one single teacher who took it upon herself to teach about that particular topic I might be a different person.
Do you also think black people should be banned from the south so that they don’t incite racial hatred? That’s a lame excuse.
btw I called Muskogee my “hometown” but really it’s more like my home county… I never actually lived in the city, though I was born there and raised around it.
To quote… someone roughly, “It’s better to let a hundred guilty people go free than to punish one innocent one…” I’m a firm believer in “Innocent until proven guilty.” While I’m sure the majority of the soldiers are good people, there are a select few who we all know do terrible, terrible acts. We can’t pretend all soldiers (just as we can’t pretend that all people) are angels, and I’d be willing to bet an arm and a leg that at least some of those prisoners are innocent.
I… wow… I just can’t believe that we THINK THIS WAY. God I need to get out of this country, if most Americans think in this way… I don’t have words to describe my outrage. They “get what they deserve??” Getting beaten… their religion spat on? Does it say that the detainees that were mishandling their own Qurans were the ones whos Qurans were urinated on by guards? I doubt it. I thought you “Christians” were all about love, how can you even endorse any war or even defend a possible case of terrible treatment about this?
I… must stop ranting, it takes much willpower to not scream more…[/quote]
I, for one, am shocked and outraged that military personnel would act like total f*ckwads.
Oh, wait. No I’m not.
Every country has its share of bitches and motherf*ckers. Same with every race, religion, gender and age group. No need to piss and moan about how Americans or Christians or whites or Jews or Muslims or blacks or women or Blenderheads or Branch Dividians or old people are all such horrible bastards and they should just go away.
-Raseri
Wow Raseri! You’re really upset. Relax, its not the end of the world.
Please dont stereotype.
Ozxrules, I agree with 100%, hyper sensitivity to the Muslim cause is not helpful.
X-Warrior, thats not very nice.
Pooba and Shbaz, I’m not calling you unpatriotic, but when the Army does war games they do factor in people like you into account.
At the end of the day its all about respect. Can we all live peacefully on the same planet, I hope so. But the truth is that man has been killing each other for thousands of years and will so for many more. The only way to achieve real peace is for all religions and teachings to reform, especially the Quran.
LOL OSX
firstly “prisoners” who have been through trials and stuff are one thing.
“human rights violations” are a totally different matter all together. these people havn’t even been tried.
The Kyoto protocal was not “unsigned” because it was never signed in the first place.
don’t even bother arguing about 1% of my post which really has little to do with the issue at hand. all it does is serves to try and discredit all my points by putting it off topic and being nitpicky. i used the wrong word, big deal.
Besides why is that we Christians always have to respect Muslims
because you want respect back? oh you don’t? ok (X-Warrior shit on it before you do anything with it, also put pictures of it on the internet and ask why we nice people must always be nice :P)
they get free food, shelter, running water, and… regular daily beatings, and torture, inculding free mental health problems for the rest of their lives, including nightmares, and the inability to think anylonger.
Lack of evidence does not mean we can presume them innocent.
who said they were. but remember a GREAT GREAT american dream and ideal? innocent untill proven guilty. charge them or let them go is basicly the international demand.
Alltaken
Clinton Signs Kyoto Agreement
Despite opposition from Congress and industry, President Clinton has signed the Kyoto agreement that would commit the United States to significant reductions in greenhouse gases. The Kyoto Accord reached in Kyoto, Japan has been signed by almost 60 nations.
???
Some Americans will excuse anything their government does, why is this?
From my own first hand observations of “some Americans”.
It all makes for a certain “feel good” factor that overides critical thinking.
I admire the US for the many good things achieved in the last century. However the speed of descent economically and morally in the current one is somewhat alarming.
It’s refreshing to see some outrage about Guantanamo coming from the US though.
BB
- Patriotism.
sadly some confuse patriotism with turning the other way when our leaders make a mistake. or not questioning whether something might be wrong. to blindly obey, praise, support, whatever, and do it with a smile. this isn’t patriotism, but fanatical nationalism. it’s apathetic and ignorant, and it’s a disgrace to the founding fathers of this great country. many americans don’t care that george bush did not sign the kyoto treaty, because in their eyes he can do no wrong. if he says there is no global warming, that’s as good as fact to them.