Hi guys, I am new here. This is my First post, though I’ve been reading this forum for some time now.
Got Mighty Blender approximately two months ago, and done some doodling with it, reading forums, checking other models etc.
A week ago I felt that I should try something “useful” and more “pro”, thus I ended up starting to model a human, and more or less topologically correct. I’ve looked at a whole lot of topology sets (if that makes any sense:confused:) and All of them were different, though all said to be topologically correct. Watching at those and lots of ref images, I tried to get correct topology and not high-poly model. Started from the torso and remade it from scratch like ten times, then I thought that with your crits and hints I could, maybe, do that faster …
So here is my latest try:
As you see the sides of the torso are very far from correct, as I don’t have a clue how to model them.
What should I do now? How is the topology?
Thats about it, C&C are very very very welcome!
P.S. Can anyone explain me how can I render wire on top of my model?
P.S. If there are any mistakes, sorry English is not my native language.
It looks very good. the topology all looks fine to me…maybe try and sort that pole at the base of the neck, and in the middle of the back.
to render wire: Duplicate your object, but leave it in the same place. Add a new material to your duplicated Object. Select “Wire”, make it black and make it shadeless. Put Zoffs to a number you like. Render!
your english is fine.
Looks good so far. Try moving on to the shoulders. Also, try to look at as many anatomy reference photos as you can find that show the flow of the muscles. I’m certainly no expert, I’m pretty new to Blender also so welcome fellow Blenderhead!
Hi, Thanks for crits ;).
Started to model that shoulder ( ahh … what a pain in the … you know what). I need a bit of your help here .
Oh, and somehow the way to render wires with the model didn’t work for me … Well it did Rendered but not all the wire, and changing Zoffs ,I think, did nothing, at least I noticed nothin’. But thanks anyway, maybe it’s just that I do something wrong …
Now this is two variations which I’ve seen in different models how e-loops go … Which one is better?
Any suggestions? I have difficulty in understanding how the shoulders and the arm connect could anyone point me to the right direction? Maybe any cool references or tut’s, anything:rolleyes:.
P.S. About the poles, I think I sorted them out, if I understood correctly what do you mean by poles. Is it vertices which belong to more than 5 edges at the same time?
yes thats exactly what i meant, and youve done a great job.
as per your edge loop question…i have no idea which is better
I’m not sure what the problem with the wire rendering is, ill knock up an example in a wee minute, just once I finish rendering…make that a big minute…
Hi, once again, I had some tweaking on the shoulder and I like what I have done (which was almost accidentally :)) Here is torso with a reworked shoulder,
What do you think about it? Is it a tad better?
P.S. This is what I get when I try to render a wire on the model …
Long time no see … I had, oh so much work at school (my last year at school you know, exams and that stuff, so I have to study a bit :p).
Though, I did some modeling yesterday and modeled the arm, but I have a question about it so I could improve it. Is there any special edge loops for the arm? And what is the best topology for the Elbow?
Here is the images:
I tried to render wires and the alt+s seem to help, but renderings just seem awkward to me so I’ll stay with my approach. Maybe it’s because of my very low skills as a renderer …
Please people more Crits … I need them badly!!
And thanks for good comments:cool:;), though I’d prefer crits …
Hey wow looks like your coming along there pretty nicely . I commend you on your work so far .
As for edge loops and such you do know that there are about as many theories about it as there are decent modellers … It mostly depends on what your building your model for (animation or not) and your personal workflow/edit methods etc. I’m also new to 3D and Blender but I have a lot of experince with sculpting and anatomy and have found the whole edge loop thing to be pretty pointless . I mean topological contours are important only to that extent thay provide smooth transitions during animation and even then you’ll wind up doing a lot of tweaking even with the most “proper” and “correct” topology . And now with the popularity of Z-brush and such (also the new Sculpt Mode YAY!) there are even people who work “backwards” and retopolize meshes thay make with sculpt tools to be able to UV map and create vert groups for animations etc. It’s more important to look out for poles and their placement as “control” points for your mesh .
Having said that there are a few points you might want to look at :
there is a pole on the biceps that is placed too high - should be closer to the elbow .
the bottom loop that defines the pects should “feed” into the armpits .
the scapula should be defined a little better, - move the pole up at least a couple of loops up and define the inner edge better .
the elbows look OK but you might want to add another loop to help define it and the triceps (there are two of them) better.
you might be able to get away with reducing the number of verts on the side of the mesh where it will (eventually) meet the upper thigh (illiac crest) . there is a pole you might want to move back a bit right above it too… - actually you might want to re-work the transition from the stomach muscles to the side - you might want to place a pole in between each section of the “6-pack” . Right now you seem to have what I like to call “pole pulling” which is a problem you encounter when you patch model (that triangular quad that transitions into the sides in the middle of the abdomin is problematic - it has at least 2 poles) - You might also want to “curve” the loops that define the lower rib cage and insert 3 poled loops to show where the ribs come through . In the back along the spine the verts “point down” too early - the ribs are dominant in the lower back and they point down and out and around to the intercostal arch which outlines the upper trunk minus the stomach .
Just some observations . I tend to follow anatomical stucture before detail (because I think the overall shape of your mesh is good) - which most photo referances (or even anatomical illustrations) don’t indicate very well . Hope this was helpful .
Hey, I did notice the the shoulder blade is really offsided and rectangular. Besides that it looks really good, but what kills the back for me is the shoulder-blades. They’re an actual broad blade shape, and they’re farther in and a little higher up than what you have now.
:eek: Wow, I am so excited, those are some great things you pointed out, I will try to sort them out Thank You both, Vertex Pusher and BlackBoe!!
Though, as my English is not the best, I had some difficulty in understanding some of the points you made.
Could you please, pretty please :rolleyes:, clarify these?
For the Vertex Pusher,
…you might want to place a pole in between each section of the “6-pack”.
What do you mean by “place a pole”, If it is not difficult to you could you give me an example?
… the scapula should be defined a little better, - move the pole up at least a couple of loops up and define the inner edge better.
Which pole are you talking about and what do you mean by inner edge?
And one for BlackBoe,
… and they’re farther in and …
I don’t quite understand what does this “in” means… further in to where?
I didn’t realize you weren’t a native english speaker sorry . I tend to write rather densely for a forum .
I did some mark ups on your last image (sorry for the roughness - I don’t own a tablet and I’m noobish in photoshop) and let me add a short color code for it :
the neon green is for new poles you might want to think about .
the blue is for poles which i find might be problematic where they are .
the very rough red lines are suggestions for moving the poles for the back (in #2 the shoulder - by the way the scapula is the shoulder blade bone - 2nd only to the skull in how it affects surface anatomy as a whole bone and as important IMO as the illilic crest - that’s the upper part of the hip bone that provides the transition point between the stomach and the thighs and butt (like the scapula is the transition point for the neck, lower back, shoulder- the deltoid-, and upper arm)and the clavicle -“collarbone”-(meeting points for pecks,deltoid, and the long muscle connecting head to the trunk ) - all these bones are where the skeletal structure provides an anchor for the major muscles that discribe surface anatomy) . I know they don’t look it but all are supposed to be quads :eek: …
about the “six pack” : I’ve numbered the six muscle panels that make up the stomach . I don’t know when the term came into usage but a well-developed stomach is often refered in the US as a “six pack”. the neon green globs are supossed to be diamond shaped (verts point N-S,E-W) quads . I’ve seen them used exactly in the same manner in other meshes I’ve seen … they help define the stomach muscles easily from each other .
the red ox head looking thing is a ruff outline of the scapula . The arrow pointing out is a prominence in the bone (almost like an arm reaching around called the Spine of S.) that meets up under the deltoid muscle with the clavicle at about the middle of the shoulder . There is a large muscle (the red sqiggles)south of the prominence that covers the rest of the scapula that reaches around to the outside (towards the arm) and “hugs” back to attach to the ribs . On the inner side of the scapula there are no muscles that cover it, rather there is a muscle (the straight red lines) that attaches under it (parallel to the ribs) which is why the inner side of the shoulder blade is such a prominent marker in the back . So BlackBoe and I are talking about the same thing .
Sorry about that I have gotten so used to using anatomical terms that I had to look up “collerbone” as common usage as opposed to “clavicle” :rolleyes: …
Oh and if you want to learn more about the pole go to http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907
. It’s a pretty good thread on the subject . You might also find the site itself to be useful - though most use “higher-end” apps like Maya etc, and there are a lot of guys who work with sculpt-based apps like Z-brush, Silo etc. there are Blender users (the above link is mostly people who use Blender or Wings - in fact you might find this -http://3dwisdoms.blogspot.com/- useful , it’s SomeArtist’s Blog ,- though he is a box modeller - well maybe he’ll convert you
I think it needs some collagen in the lips :P…and maybe the cheeks are a little fluffy compared with the athletic body you did, is that or maybe the zone around the mouth is too concave. And the muscles of the chest seem to be stretched vertically…just my opinion
Thanks, now I see that as well, The eyes and mouth were too far inset. And actually I was using a reference at the beginning, than I went for tweaking without it and everything went wrong I did some corrections now it follows ref images much better.
ahh … what a pain in the … you know what). I need a bit of your help here .
Thank You both, Vertex Pusher and BlackBoe!!
at the beginning, than I went for tweaking without it and everything went wrong