I HATE the new forum (More each day)


(moony) #82

On the subject of infinite scrolling - a user on another forum summed it up nicely:

“an awareness of when infinite scrolling is good vs bad. Infinite scrolling is good when the information is ephemeral, and changing all the time. Dating profiles, twitter stream, live updates.”

“But infinite scrolling is bad when the content is fixed. Like a forum. There is a cognitive clue when paging through a forum, how far you have read, where you are.”

For something like Facebook - infinite scrolling works because the site is ‘time relevant’. The latest posts are displayed first and older posts are displayed in date order - getting older and likely less relevant as time goes on.

For a forum like BA - this is not the case, especially the support forums. The important information could be on page 3 of 50, with all the later pages of discussion adding very little. Being able to reference to a fixed page/post number is very useful when trying to direct people to the important information (which is something else I have just noticed - replies within topics are not numbered - so you can’t say to a user “check out the node group in post #25”)


(Bart Veldhuizen) #83

Hmm, did you try clearing your cookies? Also, it seems your Chromium version is quite old. It might help to update.


(ambi) #84

Outside some visual quirks I like it. Easier to browse on mobile, no more clicking thread pages, can click on parent category and see all new messages in there. It may take time to fully understand all the differences and have a solid opinion on the pros and cons.


(Stefan Werner) #85

The Nielsen/Norman Group has a good article about when infinite scrolling is appropriate and when it isn’t:

It depends on the user’s goals. Let me quote from the article one of the reasons why I think some here dislike this feature:

In addition, locating a previously found item on an extremely long page is inefficient, especially if that item is placed many scrolling segments down. It’s much easier for people to remember that the item is on page 3 than it is to gauge where the item is positioned on an extremely long page.

This gets even worse on threads that are active. When I know that something interesting is on page 3, it will remain on page 3 regardless of how may posts are added. When instead, I have to remember “about two thirds down”, that mental bookmark will only be valid as long as no new posts are added to thread.


(Gumboots) #86

My way is better. Which is, of course, what everyone will say. Including you. As I said, it’s personal preference.

And why waste space to the right? If you’re not shrinking the window it’s the same amount of “wasted” space overall, no matter how you align things. And personally, which means I’m right of course, I hate wide pages that have the content shoved to the left side. Which is probably quite a common way to feel, given that almost everyone seems to centre their pages.

But if you want it the other way, and you’re prepared to run your own custom CSS overrides in your browser, then you can have it your way. Easy.


(Cebbi) #87

Post 84 will also always stay post 84. Why is that different?
Btw, this forum has a bookmark option, which could be handy for remembering posts.


(Gumboots) #88

I was thinking about that. The whole thing gives the impression that it was coded for phones, which is fine for people who use phones for all their browsing. I can see how the default layout would work on a tiny screen.

But, IMO, it’s a bloody unstructured pile of crap on desktop. Since I do not like being online all the time no matter where I am, and usually only browse when I’m at home, I use a desktop most of the time.


(moony) #89

But i’m not just saying it. It’s how most web pages and windows applications work. The content resizes to the window. Why circumvent functionality like that?

I already stated why. Having stuff left justified just feels more natural. Also if you shrink the page, then you only take space from the right and the text remains static, whereas with the text being centred, when you shrink the page, it shrinks both the left and right margin simultaneously and moves the text. This again makes it just a bit less intuitive.

Yeh - because running custom CSS should be fully expected when you come to a website.

Resizing content to windows has been around for decades and worked perfectly well. Surely you can see that having to implement custom CSS instead of just dragging the corner of a window to resize text is a backwards step in terms of usability.

Not everybody has the ability to code custom CSS - and IMO it’s unreasonable to expect people to do so just to re-enable a pretty standard feature that they have probably used on hundreds of other web pages.


(moony) #90

It feels very much like that. Whilst improving things for phone and tablet users is a good thing (I browse quite a lot using my phone) - the devs should think of their target audience.

Most of the time when i’m on this forum - I have blender running on my desktop too. Taking screen grabs, messing with node setups etc. Nobody is running blender on an iPhone or iPad. I suspect the vast majority of traffic on this forum comes from people working from their workstations/desktops/laptops.


(Gumboots) #91

Look, I don’t want to get into an endless argument about personal preferences, because that way lies madness. It’ll end up with us getting the shits with each other.

I agree that having content the full width of the window is fine if you like always resizing your windows to make it a readable width. However, a lot of sites restrict the width of the content. Why? Simple. Having the content section floating in the centre of a defined background can look better and feel more balanced. It’s less aggrevating for many people to have it that way, rather than have the content either right across their screen or shoved over to the left side.

That’s why this sort of layout has become a de facto standard. You may not agree with it, but a lot of people like it that way, and why should they have to jump through your hoops?

Anyway, with this new Discourse thingummy a lot of us are being forced to put up with things we don’t like. This is inevitable, to some extent, when you’re presenting any diverse bunch of users with a standard interface. Life’s just like that. Given the amount of time, effort and money the admins have spent moving to this new format, we are stuck with it. So, the best course of action is to make it as tolerable as possible and live with it.

That’s what I’m doing for myself. I’m just throwing code at the bastard until I get something that doesn’t annoy me too much, and will then just put up with the result. Hey ho.


(Stefan Werner) #92

The same applies to scrollbars and keyboard shortcuts (try ctrl-f). The forum overrides or disables browser functionality, which makes it feel alien. Many of the behaviors that one would expect from a web page don’t apply.


(moony) #93

LOL - from the person who is expecting people to implement custom CSS.

We’re obviously not going to agree.


(FreeMind) #94

Personally, I’m ok with infinite scrolling.
It kinda bothers me to reach the end of a page, and have to go to another page…
Though I agree, that navigating back to something you want to read again is easier with pages.


(Gumboots) #95

But my point is that lots of sites are set up in the manner that you don’t like, and plenty of people use them quite happily without running custom CSS. The reason being that it’s a type of layout that a lot of people like.

But yes, we’re obviously not going to agree. That’s fine.


(moony) #96

The layout is usually appropriate to the content - otherwise it feels odd. Like I said earlier, things like infinite scroll etc can work with sites like Facebook/Twitter etc, and fixed width pages work on sites used primarily for mobile devices.

They key is matching the layout to the content and to the way that content is used. I don’t feel this layout works as well in this context.


(Gumboots) #97

By the way, I’m have no idea what code you’re up to speed with or not, but for anyone who doesn’t know CSS and does want to change the default content width it’s not hard to do.

.wrap {max-width: 960px !important;}

That will change it from the default 1110px to 960 px. If you want it full width instead, this will do it:

.wrap {max-width: 100% !important;}


(sceyefeye) #98

I am just finding the navigation a bit off

I used to jump to say “Released Scripts” which is where now?

There is a level of navigation/grouping of threads that seems to have gone missing, leaving me a little lost/irritated

Oh and when I arrive at the “landing page” and get this at the top of the page
Oops! That page doesn’t exist or is private. - well it looks poor or unfinished.

Not that I am proposing an alternative, but it feels like the forum has regressed in functionality

EDIT:
Okay been playing a bit and clicking buttons and links, starting to make sense. Perhaps just a bit of time for this all to settle :slight_smile:


(Bart Veldhuizen) #99

One thing that I’d like to add at this point is that the entire focus of the migration project was just that: migrating the 15+ years of conversations to a new platform. This was already hard enough without having to design a new Discourse theme too (note that a redesign wasn’t budgeted for in the crowdfunding campaign either).

Once the site has stabilised we can start thinking about next steps in this direction. Personally, I lean towards letting people share and collaborate on custom stylesheets first so we can better understand what the improvements should look like. I’m extremely reluctant to make rash changes because one or two people feel something is absolutely necessary.

So:

  1. Stabilise the site
  2. Post your ideas as CSS changes or mockups.
  3. Collaborate and agree on the changes.
  4. Build a new site theme (perhaps even hire a Discourse theme coder is the changes require more than CSS --> we’d need to fund this too).

Playing around with a bit of custom theming
(Daedalus_MDW) #100

well you should have thought a bit more before uprooting an entire ecosystem.

i thought the whole point of this move was to UPGRADE. call me crazy, but custom themes sounds like one hell of an upgrade.

i guess not. just gifs and hotkeys, then?


(xrg) #101

The more I get used to it the more I’m liking it.