I HATE the new forum (More each day)


(LazyVirus) #102

I personally find disturbing Blendernation links to articles spamming Latest News forums subcategory.
Some of them are not even news, just generalistic articles.
I suggest a different forums subcategory (possibly not Blender and CG Discussions) or a special place for them.

Greetz


(Jason van Gumster) #103

In all fairness, it was thought about… and discussed for two years prior to the move. Plus at least three months with the test forum while they set to the heavy (and difficult) task of migrating all of our data without losing it. And the benefits are much more than GIFs and hotkeys. The sheer fact that we’re getting quick updates, fixes, and dedicated attention from someone with the time and energy to do the heavy lifting on the backend of this forum is a gigantic step forward. It’s a pity you’re not able to see that.


(Speed7) #104

I think hate is a really strong term to use here, I also do not really care for the format, but like all else in life I will get used to it and so will everyone else, it seems to be quite usable and workable. As Fweeb said above there has been a huge amount of work put into it, so BIG thanks to Bart and the other guys that have undertaken the task!

Shaun


(Stefan Werner) #105

This thread has an unfortunate title.

I can’t speak for others, but myself I appreciate the efforts undertaken by the admins - migrating such a big forum database must be tons of work. And I’m sure that they didn’t pick their forum software purely based on bling but did their research in advance and picked one that fit the demands and includes the features they need.

That said, please don’t discredit the valid points of criticism. We’re not just graybeards sitting here complaining about how nothing is like it used to be. Discourse has issues with functionality, usability and things flat out not working - this is not a “where is my post count” or “I want signatures”.

I understand that infinite scrolling is fundamental to Discourse’s design. I acknowledge that it is a JavaScript application running in my browser instead of serving static pages. Those are the things that make Discourse slow on both my desktop and mobile devices, they make scrolling jumpy and unpredictable on my iPhone and they make that no Discourse web site (not just BA) is completely non-functional on my iPad. I don’t expect the admins to fix that - that would be an unreasonable effort. But it helps if you can at least acknowledge that those problems are real instead of telling me that I’m ungrateful and that I would only need to get used to it. You asked for our feedback, and I would not have written anything if you had not asked for it.

You may have seen the thread I started about button/link styling. That is something that, at least from what I can tell, should be doable with just a few CSS adjustments and should improve the usability of the forum. I did my best to explain myself there in a calm, objective tone. I would be thrilled if you could, when you find the time, implement some of the changes, or if you disagree with my assessment, explain your point of view. If, however, my constructive criticism remains ignored while the “I HATE the new forum” messages get all the attention, then I wonder what kind of feedback you were asking for.


(Jason van Gumster) #106

I hear you loud and clear… and absolutely agree with you.

Specific to the CSS adjustments, there are already a couple threads here where people are experimenting with CSS changes that make for a more pleasant experience (like this one, for example). Bart looks like he’s taking a lot that feedback to heart. The styling on the main forum page has come a long way compared to how it looked on launch day.

If you’ve got the time, I’m sure he’d be more than happy if you pitched your specific CSS fixes. Perhaps that’s best for a separate thread here.


(Stefan Werner) #107

Humans are better with spatial memory than with numbers. I don’t know how it is for you, but when I’m trying to look something up in a book I once read, I typically know if it was more to the beginning, middle or end, and strange enough, I often know where on the page it was. Almost never do I remember the page number (I wish I did).

Without infinite scrolling, I can flip through forum pages in a similar way. I can grab the browser’s scroll bar and scan over a web page real quick, glancing the posts as they go by - this is quite similar to how I flip through a book.

In the infinite scrolling as implemented here, I can’t do that. When I grab this browser’s scroll bar, I don’t scroll through posts any more but after some threshold see things jump back and forth and update themselves while I’m reading them. That requires me to constantly go back and forth (triggering more jumps) to find the place that I was just looking at.

The forum’s own scroll bar/time line isn’t much help either - it doesn’t update the content until I release the mouse button. It is certainly useful to jump at a specific post when I either remember its date or its number, but it’s very bad if I look for something like “where did Cebbi post that screenshot of that cool model last month”.

It may be that I’m in the minority when it comes to using a forum like that.


(Stefan Werner) #108

@Fweeb, I wish my CSS wasn’t so rusty - last time I did commercial web pages was back when Netscape was a decent browser and Java Applet were a thing. For now, I think my time is better spent fixing Cycles bugs that attempting to be a designer.

For what it’s worth though, please take not that I’m not talking about making things look more aesthetic or ‘pretty’. What I’m referring to are objective, measurable improvements to usability by following basic HCI principles. Good UI is not so much a matter of taste, it is it’s own research discipline.


(Jason van Gumster) #109

No doubts. Though since there are multiple people working on CSS rules, it might be a good idea to pipe up in their threads (or, again, make a separate thread altogether) so that suggestions like these don’t get lost.

Actually… you know what? I’ll dig back in this thread and find that post of yours. If I recall correctly, it didn’t have a lot of extraneous bits to it. I’ll split that out to its own topic.

Edit: I’m an idiot. You already made the thread a while ago


(Stefan Werner) #110

It already is: Confusing button styling


(AdeptusT) #111

Your big post demostrated that target is small messages. The j & k keys fall short with it, you can jump to it with them, but then must use arrows or mouse to keep on reading.

Except when those sites start reordering posts. Twitter at least does, last time I tried looking for info in one book publisher, it was messy. And IIRC it was for business reasons, not user wellness. If users’ mental model suffers, their problem. Engagement metrics FTW, or whatever the buzzword is today.

UIs were mostly solved by 2000, all was just a matter of polish at best, not a case for flipping everything upside down and going full cargo cult.

Be nice and share, that way those that can’t code it, at least can copy/paste the parts they find useful. Oh, I see you already shared one rule. Thx.

Or just have to put up with them because they don’t know any better. They, specially the old ones, will “happily” grumble that this computa-zing seems no improvement over past methods, and keep on. Until they hit a case in which someone tells them “the computer doesn’t let me” and the old ones will go full rant about how in the past they used brain, pen and paper to solve business issues instead of letting a piece of junk tell them what is possible.
Even you admit you put up with things at some point. Hehe.


(Gumboots) #112

This is where I’m up to: Playing around with a bit of custom theming

I’m running that on top of the current default light theme. It’s just a quick bash at something I can live with for now. Given that apparently the site is still in flux, it may break at any time.


(colkai) #113

Broad brush there man. I am an “old one”, yeah, I am definitely not a fan of the new look, sure. Don’t like change, computer-ma-wathcits? Umm, no, been in the coding game before the PC existed, yeah, that old, puched card, back when debugging involved black tape and a metal block to re-puch the instructions. Coded in everything from Incite, to C#. What I resent is having to drop to coding stuff myself to visit an online “forum” (or rather, with discourse, a discussion). I have to have a select browser, with specific addons and then throw code at it just to tidy things up. Yeah, sure, I could do that, but I’m supposed to be visiting here to read about Blender, not how to code CSS for optimal “forum” viewing. That is pretty much what irks me.


(Photox) #114

So for all the talk of new tools and self policing, I realize now that I don’t really see anything. There’s a new post, I won’t say where, that is a clear and obvious spam shopping link, it wasn’t caught by the forum, how can I down vote, or flag this post? THe only button for flags is some type of ‘personal flag’?

What am I supposed to click on here?


(Bart Veldhuizen) #115

You can use the :black_flag: icon for flagging…


(Stefan Werner) #116

The rollover text is maybe not as clear as it could be. “Privately flag this post for attention” could also be interpreted as “mark this post as interesting to me so that I can find or read it again later”.

If the flag icon triggers a notification to moderators, the help text could maybe instead say something like “report this post to moderators” or something like that.


(Bart Veldhuizen) #117

I can change the text, but I doubt people will mistake a ‘flag’ icon for a ‘bookmark’. And the flag icon can do more than just reporting to moderators - try it.


(Fracture64) #118

Hello, can you add “jump to last message” button? Slider thingy is not always accurate. Something like this:


(AFWS) #119

It’s kind of a pain ,but you can select “Jump to” and type in the last reply.


(Bart Veldhuizen) #120

Click on the date/time indicator at the bottom of the slider (‘2h ago’) in your example


(Photox) #121

Ok fair enough, it does bring up a pop up menu with ‘Spam’ as an option. For starters, it’s hidden by default, with an expansion icon, that “expands” to 1 single option, which seems pointless. And yes the tool tip text is misleading.