Is a group buy legal?

I’d like to know your opininions of buying certain product i.e.tutorial or training dvds by group o people who collected their money on it. I men when those people shar this stuff with each other who paid…?
Don’t get me wrong, just asking… :wink:

Usually products are licensed to a single user; in many cases you have multiple/site licenses but they cost much more.

It is legal or not depending on what the copyright holder wishes, so it is best to check there. You can guess though that they want to sell one copy per person and will spell that out in the agreement.

How about morally? I tend to compare these things to a physical book. I don’t feel bad passing something along from person to person as long as it is only useable by one person at a time. So paying once but using multiple copies at once is certainly wrong to me. But letting someone else have something I paid for once I am done with it is fine by me, as long as I don’t keep a copy.

I don’t think that it is legal, because that’s why we have a single license and multi license option. In single user license you can only install a software or program in one computer or only one user can use it. On the other hand in multi user license it depend on you that how many other user license you need.

This cannot be done, like 5 person add some money and buy some tutorial DVD’s and watch it, because that DVD should be watched buy one user or the one who is using it, and in this way the company loss his 4 people who will now not buy there DVD because they have already seen it. Just an Example :stuck_out_tongue:

Hope this helps, I just reply from my experience. :slight_smile:

It’s a huge difference if you talk about video/audio or a software license, and the OP asked for prior.

So you guys are trying to say if you buy a DVD or BR, you aren’t allowed to invite friends over and watch it? I’ll be sure to charge my friends next time and send the money to the rights management industry next time…
I could as well buy the DVD watch it, and then sell it to a friend. While this would be something very different as buying it as a group in the face of the law, the result pretty much would be the same.

On top of that, there is the the statutory levy on hardware and blank tapes in most countries to cover exactly that.
Each HDD you buy, each empty DVD, pendrive or sd-card has it, and the money is put in a pot, and the idea is to compensate the artists for this mostly “legal” or at least accepted “private copies”.
The truth though is, most of the money is kept by the rights management industry for their “services” and not given directly to the artist.

And this causes lots of controversial discussions, and constant fuel for the fire.

Just buy your DVD, invite your friends to watch them, and they shall supply money for you to “buy beverages and snacks” hinthint :wink:
And no one can forbid you to lend them the original… at least not yet, although Sony’s already starting to do their best to prevent this with their lastest patent.

Morally? Up to you…

Economically? Which case is more likely:

  1. All 5 people buy 3 times the same 5 dvds. Unlikely… zero sales.
  2. All 5 people buy 5 dvd’s each one one different, although paid each one together over the time… 5 sales.

oh brave new world…

And no one can forbid you to lend them the original

Though read the back of the DVD, typically in the UK the wording is something like (from a DVD currently in front of me, though wording can change slightly):
“Any unauthorised copying, editing, exhibition, renting, lending, public performance, diffusion, and/or broadcast of this DVD, or any part thereof, is strictly prohibited”

In the real world no one is there to stop you lending it.

I’d just pool the money, buy it and share it. Even if it is illegal, nobody is actually keeping that close of tabs on it. As long as you’re not being really malicious and starting up a piracy ring creating unauthorized copies, nobody is likely to care.

Well the thing is, I would really love to improve my skills by one particular dvd training, but since it costs about 40€ and I’m just a high-school student with almost none income (I know no one cares but that’s just the reality), it’s kinda impossible for me alone to get it. But instead of waitin until someone upload it somewhere, I’d rather group-buy it. I know the particular author of that dvd won’t profit from each of the groupbuying people the whole price, but it’s still something instead of nothing… I do really appreciate and am aware of how much hard work and time was given into that product but anyways… It’s a way overpriced for me… And not just me alone

Hmm, interesting.
In Austria, in German wording it says “Verleih”
And “Verleih” can mean either renting or lending. I am no legal advisor and “Austrian” is somewhat different to German, but usually Verleih has a commercial context., but in this case actually might mean both.

However, they can’t really legally stop you.
In both languages it does not forbid private performance, neither inviting your friends, nor going with the DVD to friends.
And your friends can pay you for food and drinks, or the public transportation costs to get to them, your time spent or whatever, as long as they do not pay for the performance of the DVD it’s all legal. Beyond that, I don’t think there’s a definition for “friend” in the law… so all in all this is somewhat of an gray area, just like the “private copies” for which you pay the hardware levy…
They want to stop you from making any copies whatsoever, but hold on to the levy. Here in Austria there are already artists grouping up against this levy and copyright laws taken to a ridiculous level day by day.

Because in the end, the artists get crumbs, and the industry “enforcing the artists rights” take the most of the cake.

So watching together with your friends and having snacks falls under “public performance” or “diffusion” if they are in the next room and hear some, most likely.
How about me giving this thing away to my friend and fifth friend giving it away to me after certain time? Does it have something to do with “exhibition”?

Well to be exact, I’ve never mention “friends”… I don’ even know those people I want to group-buy with, It’s just about our interest…

Well, anything else than family members then… Because if you watch this DVD with some of your family that doesn’t fall in the above mentioned legal categories. At least that’s the case with listening radio since recently in our country.
Anyhow 42:00 and 52:00 in this sounds like it has some truth in it.

Well and how would you get a dvd you want but actally can not afford it at all? :slight_smile:

As you mentioned tutorials in the original question, and as this is obviously a blender forum, I’m assuming you are refering to a training DVD. If so, and if you are talking about an offical blender foundation DVD’s, they are released under creative commons. So if one person bought it, I think it would be OK to lend it out. Although personally and morally I would only do that with people I am close to, not just anyone.

Where I come from, you either work for what you’d like to have or you save up for it, then buy it and appreciate it.
Surrender on one thing you want less to get another thing you want more.
Everybody always wants everything, ideally immediately and for free without efford.

Just mow some lawns, or shovel snow for people. It’s how I always got money to buy video games when I was in High School.

Oh you don’t say… I am not that primitive to not be aware of that :wink:
It’s all a bit questionable right? For instance a lot of people woorks with photoshop now but I’d say half of them don’t have it legally. Why? Coz basically it’s a way too expensive and inaffordable for young people and starting artists, that it’s no way for them to get it… But as soon as they have money for it, they tend to buy it for future commercial work. That’s not the most proper way, but the most efecient one. Company will get its money for it and mentioned artists won’t be losing their time by saving that terrible amount of money… What do you say. Is all software stuff you use/d absolutely legal? I think a common sense still has a higher state than any law…

Let’s say that you really want the Blenderella DVD because it is your only way of ever getting the hang of character modelling in Blender, let’s now say that the DVD was priced at $5,000 and that you can only afford to pay $1,500 at most because you still need to pay your bills, would it be acceptable to do a group-buy then? Morally you might justify the action believing that the price is much too steep for one simple training DVD but to all the millionaires in the world you look like a cheapskate who only “wants everything for free and no effort”.

Well to you it might not be a lot of money but to a LOT of people out there $40 is a fortune. I myself have been in the position of not being able to eat every day so I know how frustrating it is to hear “it’s almost nothing (to me), so you should just buy the damn thing”.

It costs $60 actually… :slight_smile:
Well, I have to do my best to get it though I don’t know how…

That’s a rather esoteric example. A DVD doesn’t cost that much. And in a country where a DVD would equal this amount of money, the person who would want it, would already have a computer, which in relation would even be more unaffordable and render the discussion moot.

However, If something I want costs 5000 USD, it’s a lot of money for me too, and then I got to put it aside over a year, or more likely two years.
And it’s always the difference between want and need.
Want is luxury, need is usually doable somehow (with sad exceptions even in the developed world)

If you really need it to get the hang of character modeling, then this need should have an economic interest or a deep private interest.
If it’s an economic interest, you got to invest, shell out some money in advance in order to generate revenue lateron, else somethings wrong with your business plan.
If it’s a private interest, you got to be able to spend the money and it has to be worth it to you. (Good) Education materials usually are not for free. We’re lucky being from Europe, ask our US members or some from other countries, how much they paid for their education, and how much dept pay they do monthly. But they usually see that as an investment in their future. And there are already lots of private schools and advanced technical colleges throughout Europe that aren’t exactly cheap.

If you really need something, invest or find investors. It’ll have paid itself sooner or later, else you’re doing it wrong.
it’s the same with Photoshop, or 3dsmax, or VisualStudio.
Everybody want’s to become an artist, modeller, programmer whatever, but complains the tools are so expensive. No one is willing taking a risk, investing almost like people are certain they’ll never create any revenue with it.

And especially for Photoshop as mentioned earlier “expensive” is just a lame excuse for pirating.
The Adobe Educational license for Photoshop is allowing to use it commercially and costs 199 Euro. If you do 3 or 4 underpaid jobs with it, it should have paid itself.

And many companies are aware of this illegal copies used for “education” or “pre-financing” a license.
That’s why there is the Adobe Education License, that’s why there is Visual Studio Express, fully commercially usable.
A smart move to offer the software free in a light version or cheap, make it usable commercially and bind users to a toolchain, brand or company.

Autodesk on the other hand seems to have no need for this. Either they simply tolerate those “financing versions” or they don’t care at all what people use as they are on the best way to have the monopoly anyways :smiley: