Is this Simulation Legit or Fake?

Hello,

I’m asking if someone smarter than I am can review the bit of video here around 2:14 and let me know if anything about the video seems dishonest. Saturn video

The claim is that they are using a physics simulation with a barrage of precisely placed forces to produce the image of Saturn. They may actually be simply converting pre-designed meshes into particles. I’m not smart enough to tell if there’s any clear evidence in the screen recording of what exactly Blender is actually doing to create the image of Saturn.

An animation using particles and Force Fields.
The power to control the particles is Force Fields.

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/physics/forces/force_fields/index.html

There is an explanation in the post of the video. :thinking:

All of the forces being used are externally applied vortexes only and limited uses of central or offset magnetic fields. There are no other internal attraction forces present in the simulations.

I accidentally deleted my reply trying to edit it. I was asking if there was any evidence in the video that he had simply created a pre-designed mesh as alleged here: https://imgur.com/a/xE4d3BQ

The key thing is whether or not the hexagon shape on the top is just a result of the math or if it was manually placed there.

Looks legit, but for scientific validity it needs to be reproducible. He should be sharing his blend file for that, with other scientists in the field at minimum. Given this was four years ago, I’d expect it to be publicly available by now.

A lot of his setup is visible, he’s verbally described some of what’s not, more info in the comments – I haven’t gone thru it thoroughly, but has anybody tried to build this from scratch? Succeeded or failed? If it’s really legit, it’s reproducible.

Around the 18 min mark, you can clearly see that they have a scale graphic indicating a range of 0 - 60,000 LY. Blender does not have the ability calculate particle physics on that scale.

This is like saying you’ve proven alien life exists, and showing me a pic of a alien you modeled in blender as proof.

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I never got the impression that the simulation is supposed to actually be to full scale.

You’re missing the point.

Accuracy with scale and mass are required components of simulation. You can’t just toss those bits of the math aside, and say “Well, it looks like a cloud around a planet - so, this must be how sub-atomic particles react.”

ETA: You specifically asked “let me know if anything about the video seems dishonest.” So: that is what’s dishonest (or lets say, misleading) about the video. The guy who made the vid lacks basic knowledge of how physics works, and how Blender works.

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That’s interesting. But at the moment I’m focusing on the Saturn bit and a True/False: is the guy heard in the video sincere about how the image is being created, or did he just make a ring mesh, a sphere mesh, and a hexagon mesh above the sphere and then convert all that to particles?

The point about scale should be discussed too, but I think if you can get Blender to draw Saturn by just using a precise pattern vortexes, then there’s something very interesting about how exactly you knew to arrange the vortexes the way you did.

Of course, particles are emitted from hidden meshes.
That is the only way to generate them with Blender’s old particle system.

Old particle system is a modifier. That is a modifier only supported by mesh type.
There are explicitly 2 Spheres as emitters of particle system in its Outliner.

To hide emitter of particles, you just have disable Show Instancer option in Instancing panel of Object properties tab.

Now, if you want particles to orbit around a sphere, that is logical to disable what is called Gravity in settings.
Because that is just an acceleration of particles according to global Z axis of scene world.
So, if there is gravity, in Blender Scene, particles will fall according to Z axis. They will not orbit around a point. They will be considered as grains of sands, you launched from palms of your hands, supposed to fall on surface of earth.
To simulate gravity coming from center of a planet, in Blender, you have to use force fields. Because that is the only way to have a force directed to one point, instead of a plane.

If you multiply amount of force fields, that seems logical, that you will end up with a polygonal shape with its corners being at intersections limits of force fields.
That is just geometry.
He uses an harmonic field to avoid explosions of particle systems.
That is complicated to avoid particle systems to explode. But that is not impossible.

But that is not because you succeeded to make a very simplified low resolution illustration of a physics phenomena ; that you made a scientific demonstration of how physics works at big scale.
That is not because you can observe a vortex in your bathtub, that there is a giant bathtub below an hurricane.

And definitely, gravity is involved in movements of masses composing Saturn.
Fact that gravity is reason of existence of planets has been mathematically proven by people, who did not have computers.

Thank you for the input. What I’m understanding from it is that when he says gravity is turned off, that just means Blender is not simulating Earth’s gravity, accelerating objects down the Z axis at 9.8 meters per second second. It doesn’t mean that you have told Blender not to assign each particle its own gravity based on G. Blender does not do that anyway. You have to simulate true gravity with force fields if you’re trying to make a planet or if you’re trying to do orbits or something like that.

OK, the rest of what I’m reading appears to be a much more in depth technical critique, not a claim that the video is blatantly dishonest by creating a mesh in the exact shape of Saturn and then just converting to particles.

I’m definitely not smart enough to comment on that stuff. Thank you for your insight.

I don’t know exactly because there’s no specific explanation.
I don’t know if another video can help. (no specific explanation)

Lol, I was trying to avoid bringing up the fact this was on Rogan to keep the focus on what technical information can be gleaned from the Blender UI in the screen recording, not the super controversial context of the video.

I don’t know who he is. :sweat_smile:
There are small hints in the video, but there’s no way to know exactly if you don’t reveal it yourself.

Alternatively, you can try replicating.
But it will take a lot of effort and time.

Add…

If you look closely at the video you posted at first, it’s not accurate, but most of the information is there.
What I can’t confirm is the Force Fields setting.

Force Fields installed are Harmonic, Magnet, and Vortex. The movement of particles is controlled by Force Fields.

The release of particles is a mesh object.
(This is how particles are released.)

The Saturn video is a good example of how good blenders particle simulation is. If you want you can make pretty much anything with particles in blender. You make Saturn, you make a person made of water, you make a bunch of particles make some words. It doesn’t have anything to do with real life though. In real life you don’t just have vortexes because magical vortexes appear in the universe. It is cool how he kind of shows how to make something that kind of looks the same in blender.