Issues with linking multiple copies of a rig

Support Animation and Rigging
1

When I try to link same character multiple times inside a file, moving one linked character also moves the other character when both of them are in pose mode.

[Why this is needed? ]
There are many crowd characters which will need to be present in number in quite a few shots. Having only one instance of linked character in pose mode and leaving others in object mode prevents this issue but this solution may not work when the characters need to interact with each other or maybe hold hands or have any kind of constraints connect them. Plus this seems to be a workflow hassle for animators to have to work with ‘Lock object modes’ turned on all the time.

[What I have done so far]
I have linked two copies of same character rig inside blender, then did Library overrides to both of them. But when I have both of them in pose mode, selecting and moving any control on either of them moves both the rigs.

An obvious solution I can see is having multiple copies of asset to link from. But for crowd characters that may overshoot the asset count too quickly.

I have a feeling I may be missing something obvious(blame it on my lack of Blender knowledge) . Any help with this is greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Blender version 3.6.4

1 Like
2

When you move a control, are both models moving at the same time (as you move the control), or does the other one catch up with the movement?

It could be that you have the same Action assigned to both Armatures. Check the Action Editor, and make sure that they each have their own action.

3

Even when there are no keyframes on ANY control, both rigs get affected when I move one of them. If I select one control, same control on other linked rig also gets highlighted. And this happens with every single control. So I suspect this just has to be related to something about creating multiple links from same file and not with the animation data. I am using 3.6.4 by the way, guess I should have mentioned that at the start.

4

What steps are you following to link and override the objects?
When I try it with a rig in v3.6.11, it behaves as I would expect.

Is the rig you’re using available, so we can see what you’re seeing?

5

The thing about linking is that, as its name suggests, it’s just a link. When you link something onto a brand new Blend file, what you basically do is just calling exactly the same thing that you have on the original Blend file, without breaking the link between the two.

When you try moving the linked rig on the new Blend file, and then save, you’d realize that the rig on the original file moves as well. The same thing goes when you try moving the original rig on the original Blend file, then save, you’d realize now that the linked rig on the new Blend file moves as well. That’s the link at work.

And that’s a cool thing about linking. You can work on the same thing, or rig, from multiple Blend files. You might want to do this to prevent overcrowding on any one Blend file.

That being said, the problem you experienced is actually a normal behavior that you can expect from linking. When you link two rigs at the same Blend file, and then move one linked rig, then the other linked rig moves exactly the same!

In case that you don’t want that to happen, what you need is not linking, but appending. Unlike linking, appending is calling exactly the same thing that you have on original Blend file, but now breaking the link between the two. So now, when you try moving the appended rig on the new Blend file, and then save, the rig on the original Blend file won’t move at all.

And in your case, when you have two appended rigs on the same Blend file, you will have two very independent rigs. When you move one rig, the other rig won’t move at all as well.

6

I am able to replicate what you are describing.
If I link in a rig, and library override it. Then, Right-Click on it in the outliner and ‘Duplicate Linked’, then it behaves the way that you have described.

In that instance, it is creating a linked duplicate of the overidden rig. So they are linked to each other, and follow the movements of each. ‘Link’ has a bit of a double meaning here. You can link to something from an external file, and you can also share data within a file with a ‘linked copy’.

In my example, the ‘Duplicate Linked’ option creates a copy of the Armature Object, with a ‘.001’ name. But both copies are sharing the same Armature Data, which contains the actual workings of the rig.

image
image978×690 81.6 KB

Instead, you should use the File -> Link option twice, to bring the rig in two times, and do the Library Override on each of them. That way you have two independant copies, which both link back to the original file.

7

Thank you for your response. I tried again after your response, I linked same asset twice in a new file and added some keyframes on one of them (which moves them both) and I saved this file. But when I open the original asset file again it is unaffected, meaning the animation I updated in the file with links did not affect the original asset file. So I am still not sure what if going on.

8

@magpie
Thank you for the detailed explanation. But I am still not able to get it to work.

Earlier I was linking the rig file using a pipeline addon that I am working on. After reading your explanation I thought that may be the reason but now I have also tried linking the file twice from file menu as you suggested but it still behaves same at my end.
After linking the asset I am making library overrides using Object → Library Overrides → Make
You mentioned doing it from outliner and I have also tried that. Can you please explain if it is the same or different.

I also noticed I do not have the ‘2’ highlighted in your image. May sound like a noob question but I don’t have that in my file and possibly that is the issue.

link_issue
link_issue615×583 42.5 KB

9

The ‘2’ against the Armature data was to illustrate the problem. The only way I could make it behave as you described, was by linked-duplicating it in the Outliner. That made the Armature data block get shared between two Armature objects. (the wrong thing to do).

The fact that you have .001’s in your copy, suggests that they aren’t sharing data in that way.

Maybe try it this way:

  • File -> LInk the first one.
  • Object -> Library Override -> Make.
  • Move it to one side.
  • Then File -> Link the second instance.
  • Object -> Library Override -> Make that one.

When I do that, I can use Pose Mode, and move the two sets of rig controls without one of them affecting the other.

You mentioned that you are using version 3.6.4. It might be worth getting the most recent LTS build, which is 3.6.11. I don’t know if that has any fixes that would relate directly to this, but it’s always good to have the latest bug-fixes.

10

I am following exactly the same steps you mentioned. Going to try the LTS version next as I also suspect that might be the issue. Just to confirm, you have both the rigs in pose mode and ‘Lock Object Modes’ turned off right?

11

I have ‘Lock Object Modes’ switched on.

However, in checking that, I have been able to see what you might be seeing.

Selecting both objects, and going into pose mode. If I do nothing else, then press G to move, it does move the control on both rigs.

That’s only because the control was the one that was last selected in the file that has been linked. So it was still selected in each when they were brought into this file.

Deliberately selecting a control in only one of the rigs (which is what I’ve been doing so far), then only that control moves. The same control in the other rig stays where it is.

12

No luck in LTS as well.


I have attached a screengrab of the steps I did (Back in 3.6.4 now). The dialog box did not appear in recording but I have used defaults for linking both assets.

Wonder why it wont work here if yours does. Can’t possibly be the rig setup.
Will keep digging and update if I find the solution. Please let me know if you or anyone else have any suggestions or ideas.

13

Ok. There is one difference between what we’re doing.

I have Lock Object mode ON.
I also select both objects, then go into Pose Mode.

You can have more than one Armature selected, then switch into Pose Mode. That way, you can pick controls from either of them without having to switch between Pose/Object/Pose mode constantly.

14

I can think of one more reason for things not to work and that’s the Blender version. It was 4 or 4.1 that had a few link/library override bugs/adjustments done.

So, download a portable version of Blender 4.1.1 and unpack that somewhere and try it with that.

That really shouldn’t happen. I was always under the impression that the link is a one way thing.

15


Now I am really clueless. :smiley:
Guess I just needd a break and look and things afresh tomorrow. I am sure I am doing some silly mistake because it can’t possibly be related to how the rigs are set up. The rig file is self sufficient and does not have any linked data from any other file.

Thank you @magpie for giving so much of your time to this issue. Hopefully I will find a solution soon.

16

I am using blender 3.6
If nothing works then maybe will give blender 4 a go as well.

17

If you’re able to send a copy of the file, I could take a look at it.
You can send it via a Direct Message if you prefer.

1 Like
18

So, I just did a very quick test with one of my characters.

image
image2560×1440 461 KB

Here they are, both in Pose mode at the same time, I can move either one around and it has no impact on the other, look at the outliner naming, when I applied Library overrides, it added .001 to everything of the second character.

I basically did what @magpie said. Linked in via menu one at a time. I applied a Library Override of Make | Selected and Content to both the initial collection that I linked it and then the Rig as well.

Once I did that on the first one and moved her to the side in Pose mode, I then linked in the second and did the same. Using Blender 4.1.1

19

I have sent a rig file through DM. The same that I was using yesterday.

20

I also tried 4.1.1 again just now. Still the same.
I am linking the file from a mapped drive from LAN not from local machine, but that should not be an issue.
I suppose how the rig is set up should also not be an issue if the file is linked correctly and individual link is working fine.
Could I be linking the asset incorrectly? I used the topmost collection on rigged file to create the link and left all options to default. In fact even tried fiddling with some of the options but still same result.
Apart from that the only thing I could think of that is different is probably the blender keymap settings, I am using industry compatible and I assume you both must be using native Blender settings but again, that should also not be an issue. Even though I tried with blender default keymapping also and got same issue.