Kerry or Bush?

Just wondering

Bush, won’t go into details to prevent a flamewar.

Any of the fans or detractors of “any of the above” could of course start a flame-war here. But it would be better to be seriously thinking about the possibility of a real war. (We are in just the “phony war” stage now.) But of course that’s just what I think.

The most important thing that everyone must do is… think about it, and VOTE.

It really does make a difference. After all, when a bunch of California voters got “mad enough” at Gray Davis, more than 50% of the voters turned out. Unheard-of! But why? Politicians are like roaches in the kitchen: they scurry from the light. You can bet there were a bunch of scurrying roaches that day in Sacramento; some are probably still hiding. And that is how the system is supposed to work! :smiley:

The people who mutter that “these 11% will elect the President” (trundling out pictures of some yokel), are pure hogwash. The majority of voters in this country don’t vote at all; it is both impossible to predict, and impossible to stop, what might happen if more of them did. There are no valid statistics to predict how such an election might fall. It’s perfectly possible that neither Bush nor Kerry would win.

What matters is… think about it, form an opinion, consider your opinion (and, respectfully, the opinions of others, even those whom you consider to be filled with feces), and vote accordingly. The more involved we become in the politics of this country, the more satisfied we will be (so to speak… %| ) in how it is governed.

“It’s Osama bin Forgotten!”
Said in dull, monotone voice characteristic of a moose

“They misunderestimated me.”
Said with pride, like a toddler finishing a whole popsicle

I think we just need to go with the lesser of two losers, here.

I don’t really care. But I think that Bush must win. You ever hear that classic coincidence thing? Every president in history elected on a year ending in 0 has died in office (except Reagan, but there was an attempt on his life.) Bush was elected in 2000. The way everyone either loves him or hates him, it wouldn’t surprise me . . .

Then again, if Kerry got elected, imagine the Republican gun toters . . .

< :-+ ) My Kerry smilie. Long face, upwards pointed eyebrows . . .

Have you guys seen this?

Oh, I doubt that anything has, or will be, “forgotten.” But there are plenty of questions. I’d like to know how this scion of the Saudi royal family was instantly fingered … although the target country magically switched from Afghanistan to Iraq and the bad-guy switched faces too. I’d like to know how Congress managed to write hundreds of pages of Patriot Act legislation so darned fast … or if it had been written already, just waiting for the moment. Lots of questions, not just for the CEO but for the Board of Directors too. Clearly, the cats have been away for much too long; there’s mouse-shit everywhere. :wink:

There will always be, as there always have been, enemies out there. Really bad sons-of-balrogs. I’m not interested in electing a “protector.” I want to know what the candidates, if granted the powers of Chief Executive Officer and Commander In Chief for four years, propose to do with their powers during that time. I also want to ask the same questions of the Board members.

Many questions. Not too many straight answers.

Hey, you may agree with me, or you may not. (I hope you don’t think I’m a “son of a balrog” too.) But the important thing is to think, and to vote. Vote your conscience whatever it is; for whomever you think best. But don’t warm up your couch all evening.

Them’s dangerous words in these dark times… if you don’t show up tomorrow we’ll know what happened last night. %| <play jackboots_in_the_night.wav>

But… no. Everyone who serves the Office honorably should exit the Office, at the end of four years, with a fat pension. I’ve seen how the Office makes old men out of young ones. (Fourteen-hour days will do that to anyone.) No matter what you think of how any person fulfills the Office, it still takes guts to step up to the plate and be willing to do it.

so, after the election should we come back and see how similar the results here are to the poll?

I really doubt as many people will vote for “neither” in this election, but it would SERIOUSLY ROCK if it did happen

I live in Texas so it’s pretty much useless to vote. Republicans have won here for so many years, plus Bush is from Texas.

I’m sorry.

Alltaken

I live in Oklahoma and even though our governor is a Democrat all 7 of our electorates are Republican.

if you want to know what the opinions of the canidates are about things like weapons or abortion see this article on howstuffworks.com: http://people.howstuffworks.com/election-issue.htm/printable .

i havent realy read it fully but i think its usefull.

Does anybody think that if Bush wins and continues to aggressively pursue HIS war against terrorism that he will draft?

Well, first, he wasn’t part of the Saudi Royal Family. Bin Laden was part of a very wealthy Saudi family that made most of its money through construction. Bin Laden constantly preached against the Saudi Royal Family to the point that his Saudi citizenship was revoked.

Bin Laden/Al Qaeda was a known terrorist organization. About 1 week (I think it was 2-3 days) prior to 9/11 there was a “Northern Alliance” leader killed in Afghanistan. Terrorists masqueraded as reporters and got close enough to kill him. From the airline passenger lists, the hijackers were identified fairly quickly. Tie them to some common link and Al Qaeda pops up. Cross check with terrorist groups that have operated in multiple countries (Hamas sticks to Israel/Lebanon, IRA sticks to UK, etc.) and look at groups with the organization to pull off the hijackings and Al Qaeda is the one. Look for postings and claims of responsibility, and the evidence keeps piling up. Yes, other groups were considered but they were eliminated as loose ends were connected.

… although the target country magically switched from Afghanistan to Iraq and the bad-guy switched faces too.

The target never switched. This has always been a “Global War on Terror”. The Taleban and Al Qaeda were removed from one country. Other countries have been receiving assistance and support to eliminate their own Al Qaeda cells. The bombing that killed a bunch of Australians? The Phillipines have been cracking down on their terrorists and Al Qaeda sympathizers. They have killed a couple leaders in the last year. Indonesia has been going after their extremists. Pakistan has been cracking down on the fundamentalists on the western border region. Saudi Arabia has been going after the cells centered in their country. Colombia is cracking down on the narco-terrorists and has had a lot of success.
Iraq - a country that continued to violate UN resolutions, fired at US/UK aircraft 5 out 7 days a week (some days were no fly days) for the last few years, worked to establish connections with the now-homelss Al Qaeda members was taken out.

I’d like to know how Congress managed to write hundreds of pages of Patriot Act legislation so darned fast … or if it had been written already, just waiting for the moment.

Some parts had been desired by law enforcement and the FBI. That stemmed from narcotics and organized crime investigations. You also have entire staffs, think-tanks, and support contractors that can make recommendations and draft proposals.

There will always be, as there always have been, enemies out there. Really bad sons-of-balrogs. I’m not interested in electing a “protector.” I want to know what the candidates, if granted the powers of Chief Executive Officer and Commander In Chief for four years, propose to do with their powers during that time. I also want to ask the same questions of the Board members.

Agreed. With an incumbent, you can look at what he has done. For a new candidate, you have to look at past behavior, previous voting record, and what he currently says.
You won’t get to interview the “Board members”. That will be up to Congress during confirmation hearings. You have to look at the current staff (for incumbents) or the current election staff (for candidates, most of the campain staff ends up with Government positions after the election).

Does anybody think that if Bush wins and continues to aggressively pursue HIS war against terrorism that he will draft?

I strongly believe so.

Here are a couple of sites about that

info:

bushdraft.com

and the official draft site:

sss.gov

My brother and I are 18-25, and guess what? I DON"T WANT TO BE DRAFTED :frowning:

Another thing, I think there was a bill signed between Pres. Bush and Canada saying that US citizens between 18-25 yrs old cannot go into canada to live…

God help us.

Our state has voted for nearly every running republican for at least as I know the last several decades. Our state is inheritantly republican.

If you look at a map of the US with voting results of the residents, it’s clear that most midwest/southern states are conservative and the east and most states with large cities are primarily liberal. That’s because urban people have a tendancy to be liberal, and vice versa.

The people here are closed off to the rest of the world except for their television and their newspapers. Mostly they ignore anything they don’t like from TV or papers and listen to what their church members say. TV news is about the same as it is nationally (comparing to the internet) but the papers strongly support the conservative/religious views of their readers. Somehow, they lose sight of all of the talk of peace in the bible and believe what Bush says about how it is a good christian thing to go to war. Somehow, none of the huge negative aspects of what he does aren’t important in the face of men kissing men. Yucky!

Anyway, I don’t like Kerry either. So I voted neither.

I think Oklahoma is the only state in the US that hasn’t yet allowed Nader on the Ballot.

I want Swarzzeneger for president and I hope he puts his Terminator picture all over your currency. Then maybe you’ll realise how dumb it is to place all your hopes on an individual. In the uk, we have a prime minister but to be honest, we don’t care that much about who it is that it becomes the topic of general conversation because we understand that people in such positions are always going to screw up sooner or later and that their position is merely as a mascot. Important decisions are made by hundreds of members of parliament.

We weigh up manifestos made by different parties but it’s always the case that the party is lying to some extent and determining the truth pre-election is impossible. Anyone can make promises. That’s why election systems are so farcical because once you elect someone in, you’re stuck for 4 years and follow a dictatorial regime.

Some Americans believe that presidential candidates deserve to be treated as though they were somehow better than everyone else. Lets face it, what have either of your presidential candidates really done for your country? What will they do to make it better?

The great leaders of old like Churchill were respected for how they had great insight and leadership skills to succeed against even the most powerful enemy. Today we have self-absorbed, publicity seeking morons who don’t give a damn so long as they have a comfortable lifestyle.

I despise politicians and royalty these days for degrading the important responsibility placed on them in favour of self-satisfaction.

You are paranoid. I went to those sites. Here is the Selective Service homepage:
"Notwithstanding recent stories in the news media and on the Internet, Selective Service is not getting ready to conduct a draft for the U.S. Armed Forces – either with a special skills or regular draft. Rather, the Agency remains prepared to manage a draft if and when the President and the Congress so direct. This responsibility has been ongoing since 1980 and is nothing new. Further, both the President and the Secretary of Defense have stated on more than one occasion that there is no need for a draft for the War on Terrorism or any likely contingency, such as Iraq. Additionally, the Congress has not acted on any proposed legislation to reinstate a draft. Therefore, Selective Service continues to refine its plans to be prepared as is required by law, and to register young men who are ages 18 through 25. "

The only Congressmen that have actually talked about a draft are Democrats.

The military DOES NOT want a draft. The public DOES NOT want a draft. The budget doesn’t come close to the money needed to institute a draft.
…and who would want to live in Canada anyway? Australia would be a much more enjoyable choice.

Hmmm…A few hour drive across the border or an expensive flight to Australia…

I am nervous as to what will happen if either candidate gets elected.

Oh, and NO ONE want’s a draft, but sometimes it is necessary.