Lattice from male anatomy model to female

Hi there,

I try to adapt the male model of anatomy (https://www.z-anatomy.com/) to start a female model because many people are asking for it.

I had planned to recycle the male model to approximate the result with a lattice, here is a (monstruous) first approximation:
https://pasteall.org/blend/bf3d774c1e4b4c67b479eea079ad1c4c

Do you think that it would be possible?
The lattice has up to 64 subdivision on each axis…
Does anybody want to give a hand to get a beautiful result?
Everybody loves beautiful girls and it can be a slightly cartoonish…

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Honestly, no, I don’t think this is possible.

Male and female anatomy aren’t the same just deformed. You use different edge loops when you’re making a female base mesh vs male- that is to say, from step one, you have different topology.

Male and female also have different bone structure (look up “male pelvis” and “female pelvis” and you’ll immediately see what I mean), different muscle groups, concentration, and arrangement, different concentration of fat, and even different arrangement of internal organs. (The uterus radically alters how things are set up in the lower abdomen).

Long story short, you can’t deform a male mesh to look like a female mesh and expect good, consistent, realistic, results, because the differences go way beyond surface level deforms

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You are right and my example is gross, but:
The external mesh will be totally replaced; this principle is only used to approximate the share and use the lattice on all the internal anatomical structures (see the links).
About the muscles, I think that everything is exactly the same, except the few small muscles around the genital organs, and, obviously, there will be deformations to adapt the internal organs in edit mode.

The fat actually helps: for the moment I did not add it and the empty space between the skin and the muscles leaves some freedom to model the external shape and use the lattice technique for all the rest.

I can not imagine a better way to start a complete female model of anatomy but if you have a better idea, I’d like to hear it.

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Using lattices could help you to get a good starting point. It’s worth trying.
Maybe rather than using a giant lattice for everything you can try to use different ones with lower res.
I find very subdivided lattices quite impractical to use.
Maybe a broad one from top to bottom aligned with the pelvis, shoulders, knees to get the overall proportions.
Then more focused ones to rework an area in particular.
Like many things, it’s great to start with broad shapes and then work the details.

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If I was doing this, I personally would start from scratch and model the internal parts of a female correctly. Even if you can get the external parts correctly deformed, if you’re going for 100% anatomical correctness, you just can’t convert all the inner workings of a male body to female. There’s so many tiny differences that it would be faster just to start from scratch

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Thank you Sozap.
I needed to hear this and will definitely try it.
It was my biggest concern, about the axillary region for example.
I wonder how the parts outside of the lattice react, but will discover this soon.

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Knowing all the details of the project, I think that without having a very detailed model ready, it will not only be faster and better to do it with the lattice, but it is truly the only way (being realistic).

But of course, I won’t try to make the uterus recycling the penis, lol.

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At the end of the day, whatever you feel will work best for you is what you should do :slight_smile: good luck!

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Thank you, mate,
The external shape is a tiny part of the project; I’ll try to find a good compromise between realistic anatomy and something visually appealing.

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Cool !
Here are a few tricks :

1/ You can use lattices in 2D by setting one dimension to 1 (that doesn’t prevent you from moving points in 3D) . It can be useful for broad shapes, and the less point you need to manage the simpler it is.

2/ You can use shape keys on lattices to work non-destructively, the only downside is that you can’t change the number of subdivision on the lattice once you added shape keys.

3/ you’ll see how the border react, the changes are propagated outside, for that you need to add an extra subdivision around, just like I did for the head, I only changed the inside of the lattice. The border is left unchanged so the outer parts stay the same.

In my example I added a first lattice to change the overall shape, but the head started to get pinched a bit, so I added another one to counter that effect.

Hope that helps, and I forgot to thank you for the awesome project you’re doing !
I didn’t get the chance to use it as I generally don’t work with the human body, but it’s a great resource and a great effort to make that available to everyone !

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Thank you.

Your advice will be useful.

It may start to ‘pay’:

It says that 1.4 million euros are spent on these 13 projects and one directly based on the model I share has been selected.

I hope that they’ll hire me at some point and improve the app UI…

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You are in good company! In England it was announced last week that a medical school is using a 3D model of female anatomy to teach students, previously the teaching method was to use male anatomy and then learn the differences later.

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Yes, everybody now thinks that Elsevier is a politically progressive company, thanks to this BBC article (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-61258731); while they are in fact the worst capitalist knowledge thieves of all times :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDdBOGdEV0

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I missed that reference, I fully agree, long live Alexandra Elbakyan and https://sci-hub.se !!

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You might be able to achieve the effect using shape keys . . .

I wonder

  1. if shape-keys can be imported within unity (as an animation, in principle) to be displayed in the app.
  2. if I only use the lattice(s) and just toggle the modifier on/off (what about the RAM?)
  3. if I use the modifier to produce a shape-keys for every object (what about the file size?)
  4. if it is better to create two different .blends (in this case every update would need to be converted)
  5. if the Hook modifiers from the labels’ lines need to be applied to follow the lattice

I gathered a serie of female 3D models as reference and open source female haircuts and will start working on the skin tomorrow.

The idea is to keep the lattice(s) as a conversion corridor that remains available.
In this way, I can go on working on the male model and translate everything at any time.

@josephhansen @sozap
The changes are indeed too complex to be done coherently through one or several lattices.
Shapekeys could do but it is too much work for me.

No female anatomy for now.

Thank you for your advices anyway.

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Arf ok !
Yes , even if lattices can help , it sound logical that some manual adjustments are needed on top of it. Plus there is a ton of pieces that needs to stay together, looks difficult indeed !

Feel free to poke me if you want to give it another shot latter, even if it would probably mean a great amount of work, I can help automating some parts so you can go from male to female without too much complications. So you keep one model in the end and go from one to the other. Probably by making a few utility scripts and drivers.

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