Learning Blender and Learning Music work similarly

Huh, so your point is that professionals don’t need to know how to create in order to do their work - no problem solving, no understanding of the core theory of their craft, no need to fully understand the medium they work in and how to maintain their instruments. They can just as you say, repeat the steps given and full stop, no more than that and be professional.

I ask you to please put that into comparison to using 3d software like Blender then and see what I see when I read your statements. I’m not making fun of anything, but I am incredulous at the level of ignorance you believe your musicians friends live in as they perfect their craft.

Feel free to continue taking the worst possible interpretation of what I am writing. I wonder why I wrote I would piss off…

Ok so I am going to interject here pointed at no one in particularม because I see a lot of pedantic quote wars going nowhere.

I am just going to speak my experience. I grew up in a household of musicians. My mother and father were amateur vocalists and my sisters all sang in school choirs, as well as studied various instruments in school and after.

Two of my sisters went on to semi - professional careers as vocalists.

Of all the musicians in the family only two of us, myself and my oldest sister were writers.

My mother wrote poetry. Not music. But she could sing anything you put in front of her that was in her range. And she did so for a good 50 plus years in a local vocal group, until her vocal cords gave out.

But I was the only one who grew up with aspirations to be a professional musician. And in this pursuit, I also had aspirations to be a composer.

So in this experience at music school, again I was around musicians of all kinds. I also took music theory, played in the orchestra, learned to read music, music theory, etc.

And then this along with a fairly extensive career as a drummer in bands my whole life, I can make the simple observation.

Some musicians write. Some don’t. Some that write are naturally great at it. And it in no way has any connection whatever to their understanding of music theory.

Some musicians completely suck at writing.

And no theory will ever help them. Ever.

As for professional classical performers. Again the same division and graduating differences in writing skills apply.

Music theory classes are quite often geared towards showing you know the theory by demonstrating you can compose or at least arrange.

This is purely academic. But once you get past those courses, you move to your concentration.

And unless you are planning to compose or arrange, you pretty much leave that all behind.

You are never expected to write. And theory does not give you the gift of writing music any more than learning the alphabet and grammar will give you the skills to write stories.

It just isn’t so.

And anyone can be forced to write just to pass a glass and get a grade in theory.

And this is exactly how some musicians view it. They force out some composition much to their lament, just to get a grade.

And they never look back.

They move on to their concentration and with any luck get a seat in the local symphony or move to a city center and get work in recording or both.

Many of them, when you bring up writing at all, they roll their eyes with annoyance at the thought.

They are happy reading music for a living.

There isn’t enough time to analyze a score you are playing. That’s the job of the conductor. Many musicians this level could talk theory. But that was all back in school. It is what they had to do to get here.

They don’t think about that anymore unless in some rare case it might be interesting or necessary. Some of that might be secod nature at this point yes. But the job is to read the page and interpret it. End of story. That it might modulate keys or use unconventional melodic or chord movement or even be atonal. It really is insignificant. At some point, all music theory becomes the fact that there are 12 notes in the western scale. The number of sharps or flats on the cleff give you the starting key and you go.

Rehearsal are long, intense and the focus is on performing your part within the chamber group and on getting your part right and learning the conductor’s interpretation and listing to the rest of the musicians.

Then you go home to your life.

Those in the orchestra only write or care to at all if they are writers at heart.

Some of them get paid to play classical and then work in jazz groups and write other kinds of music. Like, God forbid, Rock!

And within all this there are times when these two worlds collide like what happened with Rick Wakeman and Yes.

He was a pianist/composer who brought all of his music theory and passion for classical music to the band, with the added skill of being a brilliant writer.

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This is an interesting point, because I do believe that you CAN learn from just observation but the level of your production will only increase as you learn to observe and emulate from your surroundings, your references. The truth of the theory behind the pursuit is revealed bvery slowly this way - a long path to take. Examples are the kids that show promise in their ability to describe their observations in pencil drawings or paintings without understanding the why of how things work - they get only so far, though they make a lot of promising headway. It is when they get ahold of mentors or teaching materials that explain the why of things that they can then widen their point of view and improve their ability to describe their observations.

In Blender, I see that as the people that can model only so well from imagination and no references until they come across a forum post that describes using references and observation to learn to better describe or emulate their preferred topic. Learning to measure, learning perspective, form, silhouette, detail, etc. they don’t just happen out of the whim to do the thing, they come from someone changing their perspective.

For me, music is a process of discovery and is parallel to these other pursuits, that’s just the way I see it. If you see it differently, that is fine by me.

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I personally don’t get what the big deal is about learning Blender … stupidly simple app. Barely anything more than a glorified Ps7.

Learning music on the other hand is rather spiritual and connects with the human experience on much deeper level.

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But, let’s be careful not to get stuck in: “broad generalities.” I am by trade a software engineer, and the very-first program that I ever wrote: was 8 lines long (in BASIC, all there was), took me 6 months to write, and had a bug in it. :slight_smile:

But, back then I genuinely enjoyed the idea of “writing software,” and, now half-a-century(!) later, “I still do!” It will never cease to amaze me what “an over-glorified piece of sand” can be made to do if you know how – and I am very much still learning.

In my personal musical journey, I am very much “still learning.” Being a geek by nature, I did self-learn about theory. And, I invested in musical software of various types – including an amazing scoring program that costs nothing. (This is not an advertisement …)

Certainly, the availability of “power tools” has decreased the impetus to “drive a nail by hand.” But at the same time, I don’t believe that it has in any way “cheapened” the creative drive of the people who are practicing these crafts now. I still retain confidence in them, even though I can’t predict what they might do next.

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Now I really want to know what that BASIC program did :smiley:

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I think there are some fundamental differences between an instrument and a piece of software.

And the most fundamental and personal instrument is the voice.

Music by its nature does not require any schooling at all to create or write.

It is about as organic and intrinsic to human experience as it comes.

Painting with a stick or brush probably is along the same level.

Technology is an appendage to the human experience. Just as an instrument is when you think about it.

There are similarities here.

But native music pounded out on log drums and pan flutes is no less music than a complex symphony.

There is a difference in technical sophistication.

But if at any point the technical sophistication becomes a hindrance to creating an emotional experience, then the technology must be simplified or further mastered to become second nature.

And in an animated film this is just as valid of an equation.

So the question is, how much should mastering technology become important in the creation of any art?

Only so long as it does not hinder being able to create an emotional impact.

This is the only rule.

There is no truth in mastering more technology to then create more of an emotional impact.

A good animator and master storyteller, could learn the simplest elements. A sphere. And make it talk to us in an emotional way.

Another animation with all the fx and complex rigging and renders could leave us wondering what in the heck they were even trying to say.

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As DeepBlender said, that’s not true. I play in orchestras and I am full time classical musician. I am a composer and while many orchestral musicians have other skills such as composition and arranging, most of them do not and would rather saw their own legs off than try and attempt it.

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Finding the truth is one of the most difficult problems on this world.

Could it be that some statements are true in some circumstances and not in som others even if they are “named” the same?

:wink:

I do really like music… but i can not even tell in what timing (3/4) or musical tone (c-dur e-mol) somethign is. I also not know all the genre and sub-genre. I do like some songs or pieces where others hate all the work of that artist. And mostly i do not remember the name of the artisy (because i’m very bad at names…).

( And i properly can’t say that some tune “feels” like the color green… when some people describe their perception… also in some other artistic areas.)

And so i can’t even compare learning anything about music to how to use a specific app.

But i think (and maybe back to the topic): learning how to learn is one of the most underestimated skills one can learn. And also how to learn things for oneself may also not be the same matter for everything.

So for me it’s always interesting how others approach this task.

And the only advice i would give:

:face_with_monocle:

do not force it… because:

Luck (and learning) is like farting. If you force it then it gets shitty.

 

 
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:rofl:

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Hola buenas!
Estoy aprendiendo a utilizar blender y ando un poco bloqueada.
Estoy haciendo un hombre y me queda hacerle las manos , los pies y terminar de detallarle la cara.
Alguien sabría ayudarme de alguna forma ?
Gracias!

Welcome :tada:

well… you can havr a look in the tutorial section or use the awesome forum search function (top right; :mag:–icon) to find some similar threads. There are dozen of tutotial recommendations and explicite tips.

And to ask a question about a specific problem you might start a special thread for this ?

So what’s you thoughts about learning blender like music ??

( Ohh and by the way usually we talk english here because this an international forum… non-native english speaker myself… :wink: )

In my experience, it is true, so I guess there’s no absolutes here :slight_smile:

There are professional musicians who don’t write music. That’s a fact, that’s an absolute truth.

Your experience won’t affect that fact and is not relevant. It is an absolute.

And there are also orchestral musicians who do write music. That’s also a fact, an absolute truth, as you say. Again, there’s no absolutes here

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There is a massive difference between “there are professionals who don’t write music” and “no professional write music”.

There are professional musicians who don’t write music is a correct statement. Your experience doesn’t change that.

That’s just logic.

I recognize it would cause you inmense physical pain to say this, so I’ll say it for both of us- we’re both right. Not only are we both right, but there’s nothing wrong with us both being right, and this shouldn’t have been a contest in the first place.

In that spirit, I’m done talking about this with you

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We are talking about this statement here:

This is absolutely wrong, independent of your experience.

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I think somewhere the idea that professionals understand music theory got comingled with [some] professionals don’t write music, and that was not what I was intending at all with my thoughts - I apologize if I took this in the wrong direction.

I do know professionals like my brother-in-law that do not write music, but they do understand theory well enough to do so if they wanted to. He avoids it by choice because he works a full-time job as a medical professional as well and really just wants to role-play as his favorite guitarists for the most part.

I also am aware that there are 3d artists that specialize and do not learn all of the areas of Blender usage - but they still learn as much in that specialty as they can before taking jobs, else they find themselves unable to deliver. A single tutorial completion doesn’t do it, that is just the start of a journey.

I still think the attribution of the title of ‘professional’ is very subjective as if someone makes a few dollars on a single job, they are considered to be so in most circles. I didn’t consider myself a ‘professional’ until a company hired me full time for a position to use my skills for illustration where I employed everything I had learned over the years.

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Because there is no proper mathematical specification about the semantic of all this i would say:

Ex falso quod libet.

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: