Linux bigotry?

General Forums Off-topic Chat
#1

I’m just coming out of a rather weird encounter on the Fedora IRC room, where I was attacked by several people for saying that I’ve had more problems with Linux than I did with Windows, which is a pure factual statement, considering that I have, in fact, had more problems with Linux than I ever did with Windows XP. I speak only of XP 32bit - no other MS operating systems.

Anyway, it was just a passing comment, I really didn’t think anything of it. I mean, I’m a linux user, I erased my licensed copy of Windows XP on my laptop because I identify with the philosophy of open source. I use Linux exclusively and am really happy with it.

I made this comment after I had a really weird problem with my clock running fast by about 3 seconds every minute, and I had to change an obscure text file in order to get it back to normal. It took a week to work out what was causing the problem and how to fix it, as nobody on the forums had any idea. It was this strange sort of problem, as well as a couple of other strange little linux haggles that made me mention that ‘Linux is not as stable a system for the average desktop user as Windows XP’. Which, as a Linux user myself, I honestly do think is true… That doesn’t mean that it’s not worth it to use Linux, but that Linux still has some usability problems. I mean, I’ve used computers since I was like 6 years old, and am rather tech savvy. I get the problems sorted out in the end, but I imagine the average person may have more difficulty…

Well, I really hope that nobody here has the same reaction as some of those IRC dudes, but I think that it is very easy for us Linux users to be a bit high on our horses. I found it very sad that these guys reacted that way, and it has changed the way I see the open source community a fair bit… It’s like ‘If you don’t agree with what we say, you’re a dirty filthy troll and we don’t want to see you.’

Anyway, it’s made me a bit sad is all…

#2

should check out PC linux ,yopper, or SIDUX…
The fedora core community are known for being complete assholes to anyone who dose not hold a PHD in computer science.

At one time you had to ask for speaking rights on the Fedora IRC from the moderator before you could say anything, and when you do all you will get is a bunch of RTFM, and hate.

Check out the other linux distros, lots of them are more than happy to help out new people.

You will still get the occasional retard who will lie and say that linux can totally replace windows in all respects including drivers and games.
But for the most part I have only really encountered nice people most of the time.

If you do not like snobs stay away from fedora, slackware, and Gentoo.
Even the ubuntu IRC gets really lame when dealing with new people on occasion, but for the most part I have had a good experience.

#3

its true, windows is generally easier to use. but Linux is technically superior in almost every way, and is getting easier all the time

#4

Funny you mention that. The first thing said to me was that I was too incompetent to run a linux system properly.

Yep, that’s true. Another reason that I dropped Windows for Linux. I tried to tell the people in the irc room that I didn’t mean Windows was better, but I guess they had already made up their minds that I was a troll. They did call me that several times. One guy even blocked my chat!

p.s love the sig hessies :wink:

#5

but Linux is technically superior in almost every way,

HA ha haaaaaaa!

ok show me the technically superior ATI drivers.Or the drivers for winmodems…
Show me the 3d accelerated drivers that automatically install , and that will not allow you to damage your monitor with the wrong refresh rate.

Show me the installer that includes all the needed Dependants included like the windows installer systems.
It is possible to have a installer like this in linux, but the packagers are too anal to include everything needed for the install… (Meh meh meh! it would waste space, and make it easy for non geeks to use it)

Linux is a great OS in a lot of ways, but not in all ways.
The day I can just download a bleeding edge package to my desktop, click on it, and have it install everything I need will be the day I start saying Linux is ready for the casual desktop user.
I hope that day comes soon, because I am not going to pay money for Vista.
For my gaming I will just get me a PS3, or pay the monthly Cedega tax.

#6

I have been using Windows ever since I was introduced to Win95 at the age of 1 1/2 years. I know all about it and it’s quirks, but I also know who makes it (ehem, Micro$oft) and do little if nothing to support them or their money craze.

So, when I heard about Linux (A free OS) I immediately set up another system to test it out on. My first impressions of Ubuntu wasn’t exactly great. Sure, the installer was easy, but the command-line functions were the center of the operating system, and I am no command line user.

Thus, I now use Linux openSUSE on a secondary machine. It does all I ask it to (Blender, Gimp, etc) and then some, but it certainly isn’t a dream. My main gripe was the fact that I could not instantly connect with my Windows shared folder. I spent hours in front of Firefox scratching my head over setting up Samba. Eventually I gave up.

None-the-less, I would rather use an open-source peace of software than software made by a money crazed company. But, at the same time, I need Windows, because I’m not a business man, or a die-hard modeler. I have games to play, Battlefield, Oblivion, etc. And there’s no operating system on the planet that can run those games but Windows, unfortunately.

So, I can sympathize with you. There is a great controversy over Linux and Windows and even MacOS. Windows is user-friendly but not very reliable. It costs a lot and it’s considered morally wrong to support it’s creator. On the other hand, Linux is very customizable, and has an average user-friendly interface, incredibly complex though, and it’s free But Linux is certainly no Windows, and Windows is certainly no Linux. So, such arguments I tend to ignore.

It’s a bittersweet relation with Linux and Windows, each has it’s own goods and bads. And people will always argue for one or the other.

Now… to figure out Samba… :rolleyes:

Cheers,
John

#7

Remember that drivers are the responsibility of Hardware Manufacturers, not the Linux developers. Either the hardware manufacturer needs to open the specs to allow for open source drivers, or they have to make drivers for linux themselves…

Of course, I’m currently connected to the internet using a windows driver for my wireless card using ndiswrapper, so in some cases there are workarounds…

Anyway, let’s try keep the tone of replies civil. Laughing like that will incline people to react in a similar fashion eh :wink:

#8

Back in the so called good old days, you really did need a phd in computer science to run linux. I guess these guys are still hankering for the good old days. Too bad. I’m using Sabayon, a gentoo derivative, and the people on the Sabayon forum are like the people around here, primarilly good people who like to help. The biggest difference I’ve found is that the forum isn’t quite as active, so sometimes a question sits for a week or so until someone looks at it. On other linux forums, they were so active that a new question could slide off the first page in a matter of hours, another way to get lost in the shuffle. I’m like you, perfectly happy to be using Linux, but I’m really aware that I don’t know all the magic words to do simple things simply.

#9

I tried Sabayon, but there were a few bugs that scared me off, such as missing flags somewhere or other, that prevented certain things from running. Do you find it relatively stable, or bloated. Did you install from the DVD or the lite version?

#10

What’s so bad about microsoft?
I’m getting so tired of hearing about linux everywhere on the net, if you even say the word “microsoft”, everyone begins a 5-minute speech on how much windows sucks, and how bill gates is the antichrist, etc.

#11

There are many places to begin… Here’s one, albeit rather mainstream, it does cover many of the bases:

Basically, they’re a rather nasty monopoly who use underhanded tactics to maintain their power. They also, to be honest, produce pretty substandard products considering their massive resources.

Edit: Hmm, I think I’m being a bit of a Linux bigot here… See what I mean! Anyway, it is true that Microsoft is not very reputable in the way that they function.

#12

I started with the main version, downloaded over a high speed connection at college and burned to dvd. I switched to their “business” edition, since it had Blender pre-installed, along with the Gimp and Open Office, so all I had to install was VLC player and one of the games from the main version.

I find it very stable once I installed the NVidea driver, before that the mouse would act odd.

I’m still having difficulty with the portage aspects of the os, since I mainly have a dial up connection to the internet, but none of the linux distros are really dial up friendly.

#13

HA ha haaaaaaa!

ok show me the technically superior ATI drivers.Or the drivers for winmodems…
Show me the 3d accelerated drivers that automatically install , and that will not allow you to damage your monitor with the wrong refresh rate.

Show me the installer that includes all the needed Dependants included like the windows installer systems.
It is possible to have a installer like this in linux, but the packagers are too anal to include everything needed for the install… (Meh meh meh! it would waste space, and make it easy for non geeks to use it)

Erm… You do know that Linux is just the kernel right?

Everything you stated up there was from other packages/developers used on-top of the kernel; Refresh rates: Xorg, Graphic drivers: AMD/ATi, WinModem Drivers: Modem Developers.

Overall these things have nothing to do with hessiess statement that Linux(kernel) is superior in reliability, stability, performance, etc…

What many don’t realise is that a Distro/OS is a collection of packages that make up what you see: There’s Linux(kernel), Xorg(Xserver i/o graphics), KDE/Gnome(Desktop environment), package management(apt-get). Because it is designed in such away even if the Xserver crashed, doesn’t mean Linux(kernel) has. Meaning you don’t have to do a nasty restart. All you have to do is restart the Xserver.
Unlike other O/S’s where everything is mashed together and if one part goes it all goes.

As for package management, it has it advantages & disadvantages. The same can be said about Windows way of installing. Neither is perfect. :slight_smile:

#14

This is one of the reasons a lot of people decide not to use Linux. Until the current users and administrators get their act straight and cater to the needs of those who cannot program, Linux will never enter the main stream.

#15

i only use gnu/Linux, and i cannot program (much, define variables and print them:o). i profur to do things from a cli because its faster for some things(changing directory’s), and you can see errors.

#16

I may be just used to the Windows way of installing things, but a lot of the installers (Blender, for example) that can be found on the internet require you to do some sort of process to actually load them to your system. Take, for example, the fact that I was trying to install “PlaneShift”, the free MMO. No matter what I do I run into having to type in command lines into the Terminal, which I do hate.

Linux would benefit greatly if all the mainstream users didn’t have to depend on the Synaptic Package Manager to download plugins.

Cheers,
John

#17

Show me a windows installer that can figure out all of the dependencies and sort them out automatically without including them all by standard :stuck_out_tongue:

Linux is a great OS in a lot of ways, but not in all ways.

True.

The day I can just download a bleeding edge package to my desktop, click on it, and have it install everything I need will be the day I start saying Linux is ready for the casual desktop user…

I’m using suse 10.3, and it took me no time at all to install everything. I just chose what I wanted at install time, and everything worked beautifully. I had a fully functioning desktop, with office facilities, email, programming, web development software, everything up to date in a couple of hours, including building the pc to start with. There is even a flash player included for the web browsers.

MP3’s didn’t work straight away, but I was just presented with “mp3’s not supported, would you like to install them?”.

#18

[rant]

Another gripe I’d like to point out (and I just thought of this after finally installing PlaneShift) is that Linux has little to no support of ATI graphics cards. I mean, come on, ATi is just about the only thing I’ve got except for my gaming rig. My X800XT turns PlaneShift graphics into blobs and blotches and errors.

[/rant]

I’ll stop griping about Linux now :evilgrin:

Cheers,
John

#19

I switched to Ubuntu about … eh… maybe 8-10 months ago. When you first install it it seems to work great. Video card drivers were teh hardest thing to figure out, and a LOT of casual users probably wouldn’t have a clue how to get them running, but if you did it for someone I’d say most people would be fine on their own with Linux. But if you’re more of a power windows user and used to setting up custom stuff and playing about with the hardware settings and things like that it can be kinda scary trying to figure out how all that stuff functions under Linux.

I have had my share of little glitches and issues, disappointments and things that didn’t seem to work no matter what i did or what method i used, but I’ve found Linux to be about 10,000x more stable than XP. XP is a really stable OS in itself, I have only ever seen the XP blue screen a couple times in person, but a lot of software written for windows now seems to be fairly unstable. MS products and Adobe products are pretty much the only apps thati can think of that are truely stable. Nero, most of the 3D apps, most of the big audio/video editing apps (FL Studio, and the only unstable adobe product… Premier, all of the DVD authoring apps) will crash and run sliggishly for me no matter how much free HD space or Ram i seem to use. Linux i find to be more stable on teh whole, tho occasional glitches aside and some apps you have to play around with to get proper performance. i dunno… they’re both really the same, i just like the way you can automate a lot of stuff in Linux. Just wish some of the larger companies out there would be willing to port some of the better packages available for windows.

#20

Welp… the ATI drivers killed my copy of openSUSE… looks like another reinstall! :frowning:

Cheers,
John