Linux - First impressions

General Forums Off-topic Chat
21

I still have it, but I only have it to play around with, and since my computer’s motherboard burned out, I havn’t used it since. Any help for me? I actually noticed it rendered faster, and I’ve heared good things about Debian, so I want to keep it, but I also want the right drivers.

Hi Tynach, maybe you should try the new ubuntu http://www.ubuntu.com/download/
The installation is very easy and the chances to support new hardware are high
its based on debian

@ Duke Forever
you can try the new kernel release (2.6.18.xx) Ive heard that this release supports more new TV cards

22

Why is it so ‘popular’? Is it because lots of people have chosen to use it? Did those people know of any other choices?

There are other questions.

23

1Smildanach: I think most people are raised to use Windows. Linux will become more popular after schools all over the world decide to migrate to it. There have been successful projects already.

24

That was my point. Windows is ‘popular’ because it is ‘popular’. That, and MS doing its best to keep things that way.

25

Linux is getting easier to use. I’ve managed to get a couple of my work mates over to Linux (Ubuntu distro). With little or no fuss, (baring a Dell, 3 in 1 printer). Infact the real problem wasnt getting it on the machine, but getting the older kids that have grown up with Windows to use it.
Although I have found the little kids love Linux! Especially if it has Tux Paint & Gcompris on it. :slight_smile:
Great thing is I havent had a phone call saying its broken. The only phone call I’ve had was “How do I use this Ktorrent?”.

Oow the Joy!! :smiley:

26

Windows is popular cause they ship Windows™ with your shiny Desktop/Laptop which you just have bought and unpacked. :slight_smile:

But don’t feel yourself being forced to use opensources, it’s not a trend, it has to be a choice first, a comprehensive choice.
What i mean, it’s useless to come in GNU/Linux world if you keep your habits and mind from Windows™/MacOSX™ environment.
You have to undestand WHY you can’t use proprietary software on it and understand WHY some hardware are not totally supported.

[an exemple]
Now, you are all too happy to use Nvidia and ATI closed drivers, why not, you paid for this card, but now we have a big problem, recently, a severe security problem was discovered inside Xorg architecture, a security issue which we could fix BUT we won’t cause: We will loose - for a moment but it’s too long for some people - compatibility with ATI and Nvidia closed drivers, so in people’s mind: will loose user!
In fact, it could be true, but it’s a pain for a good health, cause we could put in place a good thing called : “KGI”, it’s a kind of new interface between Xorg and Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris/NetBSD’s kernel and as you can read, with the same driver you could work on all these OS on any platform.
Thus, i ask you: what’s the best?
-Loose support a moment to get a real freedom later, strong security, better design, all provided into your distro --> plug and play :slight_smile:
or
-Be stuck with the goodwill of companies and to install manually driver - if it works at first - on the only wanted Operating system for the architecture they chose.
[end of exemple]

And forget this exceptionnal idea: “Money == quality certified” <- it isn’t!
If companies don’t want to make their work, they could give SPEC’ (IN TIME), with those, “we” could make our own open driver, but they won’t.

In fact, maybe with the recent purchase of ATI by AMD, we could achieve the goal! Obviously, if AMD is smart :slight_smile:

If you/we make pressure, they will follow.

cheers

ps: Use free alternatives, don’t make “M$” exception as a general truth.

27

LOL… It’s not more popular, Tynach, it’s just that 99.999% of all PC-sellers sell the PCs with Windows. By those who know about Linux, I’d say Linux is far more popular than Windows. If people don’t know about Linux, how can you say Windows is more popular?

28

Windows is more popular in the desktop enviroment.

29

Windows is used more in the desktop enviroment. This could be said to be popularity, but if none no of anything else (other than, perhaps, Mac), is it?

30

Linux only seems more popular because you’re only around people who use it, like almost everyone on Blenderartists.org/forum. You’re right, those people didn’t know of other choices, but keep in mind that most people do not want to learn a whole new operating system if they’re just going to do the same stuff in it. If you’re only going to use your computer for word processing, and you already have Windows and Microsoft Office on you computer with Word, why would you want to go through learning a whole new OS and a different program like Open Office just to do the exact same thing? It’s too much of a hassle. And most people in this world don’t do things like 3D animation and programming, both of which Linux is better than Windows for. Most people just use the computer to go on the Internet for Myspace and then type something in Word, both of which Windows does at least as well as Linux, as long as you have Microsoft Office.

By the way, I’ve asked a few people I know, and out of the ones that know of Linux, most of them say it’s a hard to learn free-be that should not be used for anything but tinkering around with, and that because it’s free it’s very limited to text editing and a basic calculator. These people are completely wrong, and I hate to say this is true, but it’s that simple. People think it’s not worth it because it’s free. Windows is more popular because, “They get good money off of it, so it must be good.”

31

The only people who find Linux difficult to learn are Window users that have used Windows all there lives.
And thats cause they’re so use to the same interface layout. That they find it extremely difficult to change.

The whole point of Open Source is choice, you arent forced into using the one program, the one O/S you have choice. And its easy to move from one program to another. For example you could be using OpenOffice on one machine then AbiWord on another but still be able to edit your documents. Without any trouble.

You havent got choice with M$, they have got it into so many peoples head that if you havent got there software then you cant do anything on a machine. And they are right for the most part cause they got the market closed, you cant easily Move from M$ Word to OpenOffice, cause of “Words” proprietary format isnt fully supported in any other Word processor.

Windows isnt popular, people are just forced into using it, and have to stick with M$ products if they want to do something. And so over the years people think well it must be the best if its the only thing there.

Which isnt true.

32

It seems like a bit of a trend to tar a lot of windows users with same brush. Either poor consumers who got “tricked” into taking it with their systems or too ignorant/uninformed to understand/have heard of/handle one of the *nix operating systems.

I know of a lot of users of Windows who are aware of Linux etc. and also aware of Windows flaws but still consider it to be the better option. (Better the devil you know perhaps?) They are happy with it and it serves their purposes. I would say that there are a good percentage of users who are happy enough with it so it can be considered a popular choice.

side note: Windows users do pay for buggy software though :slight_smile: They should move to Linux. There’s more choice there. We get way more bugs and they’re free :cool:

33

i have been using fedora core 5 and windows on a dual boot system for a month or so recently. i havent really been abel to experience the full power of linux yet because i dont have any internet access to get things updated and configured properly. Linux seems to have its problems. But windows does aswell. THey are both great operating systems, just wth different uses. windows enjoys compatibility with jsut about every thing, but it is slow and unoptimized and un customizable do the degree that linux is. but linux has compatibility and complexity issues. plus not to mention a huge disconnect from itself due to the fact that there are soo many distros and desktop systems. This really decentralizes the users and makes things very unfocused. I would like to see a distro and desktop system compatible with every thing linux or some sort of a unification to solve the biggest problems in the linux world. THe advantage that MS has it that it is centralized and focused, creating a great product.

34

It seems like a bit of a trend to tar a lot of windows users with same brush. Either poor consumers who got “tricked” into taking it with their systems or too ignorant/uninformed to understand/have heard of/handle one of the *nix operating systems.

My approach is different, i try to do like in my signature eheh

know of a lot of users of Windows who are aware of Linux etc. and also aware of Windows flaws but still consider it to be the better option.

And? Is it a reason?
A lot of people are aware about cigarett(?) kills, so what?

People are too lazy, they think ALL is due, that’s it.
But they have the choice to be lazy or eat sh*t, but then, they don’t have the RIGHT to cry/criticize about something which they don’t want to learn or to try to understand.

Personally i don’t care about them anymore, If people want to try, want to make an effort, i would be happy to give to them any help but i won’t seek them.
The Nice/patient/Maternal/or-any-politicaly-correct experienced linux-users are not there anymore for noobs without will, after all, this kind of user isn’t interesting.

Ubuntu is enough “friendly user”, pls now stop with your pity arguement.
“oh it’s too difficult, Oh i can’t give 1hour of my time, oh where is MSN? ohhh in fact, i can’t read”

cheers ungratful :slight_smile:

35

Meltdown, I’m not going to address the cigarette comments etc. as they have no bearing on what I was saying. There is no comparison there I’m afraid.

However, the points you made about people being lazy, not wanting to learn, understand and in turn missing out on your “help” can be addressed.

The people I was talking about don’t want to learn about *nix. They don’t want to understand it and don’t feel they are missing out. They want to play new games, which Windows does with far greater ease. They want to be able to install software and configure hardware easily and quickly by doing what they know.
They choose not to re-learn the basics and beyond as they have invested a substantial portion of their time learning how to get the results they want from their systems and software. For them, the best option is to “stick with what you know” as it takes little or no effort on their part.

You and I may disagree with these people when it comes to deciding which OS is “best” but it is foolish to assume that lazyness, stupidity or ignorance are the only reasons for using Windows.

Whatever happened to the path of least resistance?

36

Hi Chimpoid,
My comparison is a bit extrem, i know, but it isn’t wrong. Don’t make me foolish.

Anyway, why are you telling about these users?
Here i don’t point to these users.
And telling they have to learn mega basics or this kind of very low level stuff, it’s pretty misleading. GNU/Linux is not hard, or at least, it is not harder than Windows™.

But, if it’s a deliberated choice about your users, so why are you speaking about them?
I don’t criticize their choices as - in fact - they don’t HAVE to criticize mine or all people having worked hard to make what Opensources softwares are.
In fact, i dislike when people criticize about something they don’t even know. I don’t mean you have to make a blind trust on OSS world but, you have to know contexts.
However, i’ll insist on one thing, at the era of Internet, all people should take care about interoperability, at least.

Also, it be cool to compare experience on a multi-billionaire OS like Windows™ with commercial distros like SUSE/Mandriva™ etc :slight_smile:

My last words, i notice a recurring thing, first impressions, in informatic, are often misleading.

cheers

37

Congrats Social. Have a great time with your new setup. If anyone starts on about using illegal software to watch videos and such, all you have to do is stick your head out the window and yell:

Thanks be unto Hungary! May the E.U. never figure out what to do with you!

38

Meltdown,

There are obviously some linguistic barriers. I think you are missing some of the subtleties of the situation (or it appears that way from your post). You replies are slightly difficult to understand.
I think I get the basic idea of your opinions on the matter but anything more than that is “lost in translation”.

I still think the cigarette comparison is incorrect. Perhaps comparing automatic vehicles (windows) with manual (*nix) would be more accurate. Automatics are slow, ungainly, more expensive when they break, lack control etc. Manual gearboxes are more responsive, easier to maintain, greater control. The point being that although a large number of US citizens drive automatic cars it doesn’t mean they are lazy, too stupid or uninformed about the benefits of a manual gearbox. They take the commonly available option and in a lot of cases they would have to re-learn the basic skills of engine control.
They are taking the “path of least resistance” and get a vehicle which serves their needs. In most cases they have no need for that level of control an response regardless of any benefits it may give.
Note that the more accurate and responsive manual gearboxes are kept to the “sports” cars where they are of benefit and not fitted in the station wagons.

I was referring to the happy windows customers in order to redress the balance. These people do exist and they shouldn’t be labelled as stupid because they have chosen an “automatic” operating system.

It is not misleading to say that Windows users have to re-learn the basics because they do as I found out last night (again). I setup Linux on my dad’s system and got a phone call to say the modem isn’t working. Turns out he has to go and install the kernel sources, download the drivers, su, apply the patch, build the drivers, install them and then symlink the (start/stop modem) scripts somewhere where he can use them.
Setting up your modem is “the basics”.
In windows he pops in a disc and selects “Install modem” from the menu.
In Linux he has to run a shell, compile from source and install and configure. (As a side issue the instructions on the manufacturers website are badly translated from French and the configuration is untranslated and in French. Windows doesn’t require you to learn a new language to install your modem drivers. It would usually offer at least a handfull of languages)
Result is that I have written a bash script that will sort it out for him. Problem solved for the moment. He does want to learn but at a reasonable pace. Compiling kernel modules from source on his first day is not really fair way to learn Linux.

39

Yes, i got your point but it stills some cliché within.

But i don’t argue anymore, my english seems to suck a lot.

++@

40

Hi ya all

I ve been folowing this thread since it appeared, because I have been considering, trying linux myself for some time. I have read a bit about ubuntu, and it all sounds straight forward enoiugh. But I still hesitate.

appart from lasyness, and xenofobia (being afraid of things unknown) there is something else playing against linux, that has allready been hinted to. IMMAGE. Linux has the immage that it is difficult that there are few programs for it and it is for nerds.

Such things change verry slowly. Someone I know, who absolutely hates windows, and tried to switch long ago, got verry disappointed. After a long instalation process he couldn’t do annything , because there were no programmes included in his installation. (and no brouser so he couldnt easilly get any) He still swears at MS daily but isn’t likely to try again.

Now if I reed it corerectly Ubuntu, will install a set of default programs , including a brouwser so you can get help, and a desktop environment. (that is important! for many people clicking is the norm, typing commands is out of the question) I’am exited to see how well it will work, but even if it dous, it will still have the bad image to fight when winning over others.

What it comes down to is people percieve it will take them more effort than they are willing to invest despite the bennefits in the long run.

Cheers
Smitje

PS
At least all the popularuty of linux is due to it’s usefullness. Despite MS spending milions on advertizing, AND resorting to muscle tactics against others in ‘their’ market. Yes that is monopolistic behaviour, and they are being punished for that. (at least in europe)