Little fellow for animation

(thelowlander) #1

Wanted to start something simple to learn animation.
Not that I quit on my other thing, the Bob dude, taken the advice and been testing with it, nothing good came out of it so far though… Just want to start learning some animation, so I need something simpler.

Allready stuffed more detail into it than I planned, but here are some WIP images:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6867/screencap18ct4.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7048/screencap01ym9.jpg

Ran into a problem allready too. I want to bake the high res “full render” to texture, then use that as the texture for the “lower res”. trouble is I forgot to unwrap before I sculpted D’OH! Unwrapping the sculpt is more than my comp will chew, so would anyone have a good way to get this high res puppy baked into a texture that would be great. I keep getting a can’t find image file error, whether I have an (empty) image in the uv editor or set as a image texture in the texture tabs.

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(Dudebot13) #2

Looks good so far. Sorry bu,t I can’t help you with the baking problem. I have never used it but for radiosity. But the model would look a little better if you added a line to divide the shirt from the pants. And are you going for a creature of nature or a regular cartoon because the bumps would look weird for a cartoon. Just saying, it’s your model. Can’t wait to see that animation!

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(watchthis) #3

nice and simple, all he needs are textures and some rigging if you havent done that already, dunno any animation, sorry

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(thelowlander) #4

Thanks for the replies, I’m not really certain what i intend him to be, a toon or creature of nature or something. Either way, I was thinking about little big planet, some base characters that you can fairly customise by texture and items/clothes etc. I’ll make a few variations in high res and use those as to texture the “low res” ones. Or something like that, since I suck at 2d texturing :frowning:
There’s gonna be more than one in the scene, at least that’s the plan for later.
The reason I didn’t seperate the shirt from the pants is because I want him to be wearing an overall.
Haven’t rigged him yet. Going to do some about the texturing this weekend first I guess, then I’ll start experimenting with rigging again. After that, It’s onto animation.

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(Kannon) #5

Hm. heads back to my rigging tutorial Though… I should simplify the model a bit. (It suffers from the traditional not-thinking school of tutorial writing, lmao.)

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(thelowlander) #6

Do you mean would instead of should? maybe you are right, then again, I like this little fellow, so I’ll stick with it. I’m mucking with the best way to get materials look nice, and maybe get a few variations, to get a few of them (they move in packs you know)
I’m not going to spend too long on the materials now, I want to get to animation… still, I want the textures to be good… I so suck at them…

found out how to bake the texture, copied from the thread at cgtalk:

For this result (I know it looks like crap, it’s about the technique behind it…for now…)
I made a duplicate which I gave about 3 or 4 material indexes. one for the shoes, overall, head and hands. Then I applied a different (procedural) material to them. Of course the duplicate has the same unwrap. set some bogey lights, switched to uv face select mode, select all, create a new texture in the uv editor, press bake, and watch it BURN BABY!.
then save and apply the baked image to the original mesh.

The original mesh with only one mat index is rendered here.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2732/screencap01ww8.jpg

Note: I could’ve just used one mesh and remove the mat indexes afterwards, But I figured I could muck around with the duplicate (on a different layer) for more sculped faces or clothes or whatever…

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(thelowlander) #7

Long time, I’ve got an update. I’ve been posting minor stuff only at cgtalk, figured I’d get some good c&c for my current problems around here maybe. Plus I do need to hang out here more.
I have made a basic rig, it looked alright, but the weighting was terrible to begin with. the arms pinch at the elbows, the armpits come out when the arms move up and they dive into the body when the arms went down etc. It’s hardly causing problems in the rest of the rig though.
So i redid some painting, beginning with the arms, then I added some bones to help the deformation of the elbows, shoulders, armpits and chest areas. trying out stretchy bones for that.
screens:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1473/fella03hi8.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-01

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7495/bonesetup01ux8.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-01

copied from cgtalk:
I first used target constraints to lock the “deform bones” to little bones which I parented to either the lowerarm/upperarm/shoulder/neck.
But then once you bend the arm too far the bone goes through the targeted bone, so I used stretchy instead. which is a little trickier to control I think, but results seem better so far.
I’ve painted the weights in those areas again, and the arms bend a lot better up and down and to the front and back now.
Some problems occur when I start twisting the arms though.
I’ve looked at the known rigs, like mancandy, ludwig, otto, and I tried blenrig but it is packed in rar, haven’t got an app installed yet that opens that.
It seems that ludwig doesn’t even have vertgroups for his body! including the fingers, is he using only the envelopes? wow, some precise fitting then!
mancandy has a LOT of small vertgroups on several small helper bones, but then again his arm is set up a lot more complex then mine needs to be. it’s like looking at spaggeti right now.

I know I have to rework the hands on the bones in it, but still:
both otto and ludwig have these bones which drive an action where the fingers bend, but both these actions start with the fingers bending the wrong way. Long story short, I can’t reproduce this effect. Even if I make an action with fingers bend the wrong way first and then bend them the right way, with about the same number of keyframes, when I rotate the fingercontrol bone, the fingerbone rotate like crazy, no matter what my settings.

I know there’s a number of good blender riggers out here, I’ve looked through the wiki and some other places that cover rigging, it’s not that I can’t find the info, I can’t really adapt it in this character. If anyone could give me a small example of what to do or where to look, I’d be very gratefull.
If someone wants the file to check it out/make some quick fixes for me to study, they are welcome to. I’ll upload it.

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(migero) #8

rig looks good can you post leg & foot rig ?

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(thelowlander) #9

Sure, I can send you the file too if you like. that might make it easier to show what parts of the rig are causing problems. Won’t be till this evening though, won’t be home untill then.
Thanks anyhow.

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(migero) #10

so ok pm me with the file on savefile or something or send it over to migero (@) gmail (dot) com

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(thelowlander) #11

Okay I’ve send you an email. Sorry I didn’t post earlier. I didn’t have access to my own computer for 2 days.
I really appreciate your help man.

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(thelowlander) #12

nother small update. Nothing bone related. Not that I haven’t been busy with it, I just have been getting more crappy results with it isall…
I figured I’ll have to redo the hands sooner or later, so heck I threw in some hands from an older model of mine. I think it looses some of his “tooniness” though… Heck I’m so fed up with computers today anything goes for me as long as it doesn’t NOT work. Maybe I should bring this to work and work on it during lunch break. just redo the hands completely.
I hardly have time in the evenings anyhow.
on a sidenote. when I appended I accidentally took the wrong file, with an old head in it. It looked funny and gave me a good laugh at a time I was really fed up… So i hoped some of you might like the humor in it: OHNO, THINGS GROWING OUT OF MY HEAD!!! FLCL style!
bleh, screens:http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2282/differenthandsfh4.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/46/thiscantbegoodbd1.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-09

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(migero) #13

ugh i didnt get any mail ;/ by the way i cant see any huge update going on ;]

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(thelowlander) #14

it was a tiny tiny update. Not that I haven’t been tinkering with it, I just didn’t get enough progress out of it to actually save it. If I get one vertex to move better, the other one jumps out of place. it’s kinda starting to tick me off.
I just “dumped” these hands from another model of mine in to get my mind cleared, seeing as I’ll have to redo the wrist and hand anyway. I’ve also been working on a livingroom/house from some good friends of mine. they think about redecorating and we/I thought it might be fun to see what it could look like. I have the layout of the first floor pretty precisely done, I’ll move on to details sometime later.

I’ll send you another mail about this little dude, maybe it got stuck in the spamfilter? I used a gmail account. I’ll send it over again. real quick, I have to be off in a few mins…

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(HJvK) #15

Nice, but I think the very first immage is still the best yet

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(migero) #16

yea it is but now that he rigged the model there’s no turning back and doing sculpt or im i wrong ?:wink:

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(thelowlander) #17

Well, yes and no, I wanted to make something very simple but still nicely looking to learn about animation. Well that has proven a tremendous success so far… “cough” The sculpting was only gonna be the base for textures, or I’d be getting stuck in modeling again and again.

How do you know you’ve come full circle?
You make enough new bones with constraints and weights to save out to a new file, to notice after the initial “yeah this will prolly look/work better” that all these new bones/constraints don’t really do much usefull, and once you remove what doesn’t help or works at all, you end up with exactly the same bones you had BEFORE you started to edit them… again…

The legs seem to do what they’re supposed to… area’s of concern are the chest, shoulder and armpit, collar, biceps, elbow and inner elbow, lower arm.
Wrist too but I still have to make completely new hands and wrists again.
Downloaded blenrig and took a look at that, great rig, but kinda confusing.
there’s no mesh to compare to and all the names are spanish? which makes it rather hard to translate to another rig which bone serves exactly what purpose. Most if not all the stretchy bones are constraint to the location of a helper bone which in turn is parented to another bone. Doesn’t simply parenting the stretchy bone to the helper bone’s parent do exactly the same thing? It does in my rig anyway.
I’ve looked closer to your Eiko rig too Migero, you don’t deform her body with bones, but her lattice which deforms her body through Hooks? correct? If I remove the sleeves I see you have the same problems with the shoulder and elbow.
Every rig I’ve checked thus far save blenrig has this problem, even mancandy has the pinching elbows.
Makes me happy to know I’m not alone.
Lot of text, again, to show that I’m still working on this. No screens cause there is just nothing new to actually see…

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(thelowlander) #18

Update:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3485/fella04sx9.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-23

While you may not spot the difference, the elbow finally doesn’t twist so awfully inwards anymore. It’s not the most realistic effect, and still not perfect, but quite doable for now. I’ve removed all the weight painting, and only the upper/lowerarm and hand are quickly setup.
I threw away all the first set of helperbones. I was trying to mimick muscles by putting them roughly in the same position. Didn’t really work.

I’ve looked through some rigs, mostly blenrig, and found he’s using a lot of twist bones to keep the arms from twisting ugly. So I made some of those twisty bones myself. Then I recalled B bones, with multiple segments. Turns out you can sort of set them up to behave exactly the same way. If in and out are both 0, then the bone only twists, maybe it stretches too, but I haven’t seen this yet. I’ve also added a rotation bone for the lower arms, which have copy rotation constraints as well now. simplifies moving the arms into place.

So next up: one version with B bones and some elbow helpers, then on to shoulder and chest helper bones, and one version with no B bones and more twist and helper bones.

Edit: the bones in the hands don’t serve any purpose yet, have to realign them first. Now to find out how to give bones these cool shapes, like hands :slight_smile:

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(musk) #19

That’s easily done. Simply enter the name of the object you want to see instead of the bone in the OB: Field when in pose mode in the edit tab.

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(migero) #20

yea i did add that to your blend file ;] see your mail

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