Long Wait for Blengine, Interest in No-Code Solution


(brucegregor) #1

If such a thing were available at low cost, would there be much interest?

Bring your textured Blender Models to Life in a No Scripting, Totally Visual Gaming Environment.

No coding, no scripting, totally interactive manipulation in 3D Real Time with collision detection, real world movement systems including bones and IK, sliding joints, hinges, ball joints, full constraints and an incredible spring simulation system - sensors, reactions and manipulation handles included into a “wire together” non-linear, (including random behavior), processing environment - plus an intuitive, yet simple timeline for incorporating sound and bezier control of animation curves - everything operating in real time - standalone publishing to Mac or Windows, interactive “wired” Quicktime or Flash publishing for the web.

Add to these features instantaneous transfer of Blender models, fully textured for adding life and interactivity, immediately “playable” and viewable in real time 3D - the ideal system for making games like and unlike any you have ever seen or played before, should all add up to a “gaming” solution many of us would be interested in incorporating into our Blender pipeline.

Just curious,

Greg Smith


(z3r0 d) #2

technically the logic brick thingy blender has now is a form of programming


(MagicMan) #3

I think its called a ketsji engine but I have no idea why.

Anyway, I dont think there would be much intrest if this was available for a low price because CrystalBlend is being created and will be a free solution that will include many more features than the current game engine. I’d much rather use something free than pay.


(brucegregor) #4

I would also rather not pay for something than to pay for it. But it is a matter of time, I think. Nobody seems able to project how much time will elapse between now and when the Crystalblend application is ready for release. So, we are all relegated to the categories of those who wait and those who do.

Greg Smith


(bigkahuna) #5

There’s “3DRAD” http://www.3drad.com/index.htm although I’ve never used it. There are others, but AFAIK 3DRAD is free (although it isn’t open source).


(goldentaiji) #6

Heh, what would this new solution be? And what is exactly meant by low cost? Lol, Torque is low cost ($100) compared to other game engines that sport a $1K-100K price tag.

Well, I kinda can script in python for blender (it can do most things when you learn how to, besides some shortcomings). Unless what you’re suggesting is avaliable right now, I don’t see many people going for that option. The future of the Blender GE is evolving, with CrystalBlend, Girona, and Erwin’s new bullet physics. It’s just a matter of time before we have one of the greatest game creation packages avaliable and it’s completely free.

Jason Lin


(matthewsjc1) #7

Three questions:

  1. Gregor: is this the system proposed at the '05 Blender Conference?

  2. Is CrystalBlend going to have a direct exporter to .exe from Blender or do you need to compile it in Crystal Space?

  3. What is the estimated timeline for a fully usable version of CrystalBlend?

Thanks,
Jared


(brucegregor) #8

Jared:

The product I am talking about is, right now, in limbo, so to speak. It was available at high cost, a couple of years ago, but because of poor marketing decisions and bad product positioning, (and its high cost), it couldn’t keep the staff alive, apparently. I’ve been speaking to the owners of the product about reviving it, releasing it at a much lower pricetag, and offering to develop a community of users and provide support. We’ll see what their ultimate response is. I’m just trying to figure out whether enough interest is present for going ahead with such a project.

Is it really true that it is only a matter of time before the Crystalblend solution is available at no cost? I, myself, do not have a clear picture of how it is intended to be integrated into the “Logic Brick” system, and how much coding will still be necessary to accomplish great things. And, of course, nobody knows how long this will take, or, if, indeed, it will ever be finished. Erwin has announced that he is going to simply hand his portion of the product over to the Crystalblend team for their use, so he will no longer be working on it. Not all Blender projects get finished. In fact, many get abandoned for lack of resources and developers. It is silly to bank on a thing that is only a promise, at this point.

Greg Smith


(gorgan_almi) #9

You can find info on how CrystalBlend will link to blenders logic brick system here. The currenly released versions of CrystalBlend use the 0-scenario described on that page. But I believe it is Jorrit’s intention that CrystalBlend will eventually use the CEL-scenario, which would mean a complete replacement of blender’s current logic brick system.

If you really want to know what the structure of the new system could be, open this PDF scroll to the bottom and look at the diagram under “Quest Definition Screen”.

Keith. 8)


(brucegregor) #10

Jason:

Low cost for this product would be around $129 U.S. That is very low for a game creation environment that has already been proven to be the fastest platform for getting a working prototype up and running, even a one man project becomes possible to finish.

A little more background: Most of the game is put together as an assembly of actual objects, each having premade behaviors and custom animations, of your choice, attached to them. Any object can demonstrate these behaviors and any object can have a variety of triggers attached to it, as well. Automatic collision detection and reaction are part of every object. A particle system is easy to attach to any object which allows for incorporation of transparent sprites as particles.

Every object can also possess an unlimited number of animated sequences complete with triggerable sounds. A bone deformation system is included, and any object can act as a bone deformer, giving the user ultimate animation flexibility. Animations can be grouped so that they play in a sequencial manner or in a random manner. Lip sync is also possible.

By making the entire environment mimic the real world, it is very obvious what everything does and is. For example, a spring behaves as you would expect a spring to behave, and it looks like a spring. A hinge looks like a hinge, a ball joint like a ball joint, and deformations are incredibly simple to control and adjust. It is easy to make things elastic and bouncy as well as machine like and rigid.

The material system is simple, but the results are impressive. Since there is no rendering, what you see is exactly what will be visible in the playable game. You have control over specular and diffuse color and intensity, transparency of any material and glow, as well. Partially transparent .png textures work very well, and you can use video textures for any object. A model created in Blender and UV mapped or vertex painted is immediately transferable via the “VRML 97 (old)” export option. Antialiasing is standard and fast.

Game play is created by causing the objects to interact in a controlled or random fashion with each other and with the “player”. Spring systems can be used to imitate all kinds of physics, including gravity and damping, acceleration and soft body types of behaviors. The player of the game has instant control of camera view, object position and rotation and zoom. The entire game making process is like playing with a very sophisticated Lego set, where you control the order in which things take place and react with other things, add randomness, and can defy or conform to the laws of physics… Also, object manipulation is incredibly intuitive, taking place both parallel to the view angle and constrained to any particular axis. Very similar to the Blender environment. What more could a game creator want in a set of tools? And, this exists today, much more valuable than a promise.

Greg Smith


(matthewsjc1) #11

I just skimmed over what you had written about this engine. What I had read sounded not like a game engine, but a game creator. It does everything for you and hinders creativity. Blender doesn’t give you all the premade objects. Blender is a tool to create your own games, not re-arrange someone else’s game and call it your own. I’ve tried the game “engine” RAD before and it sucked!!! It doesn’t allow for much creativity at all… I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t think genuine blenderheads would be interested in this product. Thanks anyway though…

,Jared


(brucegregor) #12

Jared:

No, it is not somebody else’s game that you modify like “GameCreators”. Nothing like that at all. It is a “raw” set of tools and generic behaviors that are common to most game related tasks, such as moving objects, constraining them to paths, starting and stopping animation sequences, moving a joint, (open a door), start and stop timers, activating a spring reaction, starting a particle stream, modifying geometry and materials and textures, moving or rotating the view, jumping to a new location or scene, reacting to a collision, etc.

The triggers for these commonly used behaviors are also equally generic in nature. They can be attached to anything and include mouse location and state, keyboard presses, time, (local and global), position, orientation and scale of objects, as well as a change in any other existing parameter.

The entire system is infinitely flexible and offers an exponential combination of complex “cause and effect” events to happen, as well as random groupings of behaviors, making the kinds of gameplay that can be imagined and made “real”, unlimited.

The only difference between this method of creating games and creating games from scratch with raw code, is that one does not need to know how to code or think in code. One still must be able to work through the logic of the game play, but can instantly test any behavior they have designed visually, functionally, observably as a scientist would do in a laboratory, rather than as a mathematician would do on paper with symbology. This system is visual programming, graphic programming, process oriented and not at all cryptic in nature. This allows the speeding up of all game creation processes, giving the independent game creator a chance to finish what they have started rather than remotely fiddle with code. It is hands on game making, rather than hands off game making, which is what you have when using cryptic code to define behaviors and reactions.

This system is not a library of predefined anything - that you merely piece together to make something like a first person shooter. It is behavioral code encapsulated into visual representations that are common to “player” actions, whether the player is a character, an abstract object, a force, the “camera” , a group of objects or nearly anything you can imagine. You determine the exact nature of everything in the game, including its appearance, (any textured Blender model), its animated behavior, (keyframed and fine tuned by you within the creation environment), its physics or lack of them, and its ability to sense its environment, precise or random reactions to other objects in a scene, time, or location or orientation or any other parameter that exists.

Coding a game requires reinventing the wheel over and over and over again - very educational if what you are after is education. Not very practical for the individual, independent game developer that wants to get something done in a reasonable amount of time.

Greg Smith


(goldentaiji) #13

:smiley: I might be slightly interested since it does have all those cool features already. However, a powerful set of game creation tools coupled with a relatively small price tag compared to other engines (is still a fee). Personally I wouldn’t buy something :-? for personal game development. It just takes too long for a single person to make a nice game with lot’s of content. ie: I thought about it, but never actually took the step to buying Torque

Well… in saying not all Blender projects get finished… I don’t think CrystalBlend would go down that path. Jorrit the creator and developer of Crystal Space has had his project run for several years. Hmm… is Erwin really just handing his portion over to the CrystalBlend team? Isn’t he currently still working on bullet physics? A finished version of that would be handed over to be used as a physics system for CrystalBlend.

:wink: As for the GE you speak of, are you advertising on other Game Engine forums as well? If it’s beginning interest, I think the more you have the better it’d be. :-? Yeah some guys here are just die hard Blender users. For me it provides things that I need and future physics that are so cool (I don’t mind the wait).

Jason Lin


(brucegregor) #14

Jason:

I’m reluctant to post anything on any forum dedicated to the making of games. And, this is ironic, because you would think that in these places you would find the most interest. But, not so! Those already entrenched in the pursuit of making games have a form of programming snobbery. They look down their noses at people who aren’t “man enough” to code.

The people I perceive would have the most interest are artistic ones needing an expanded venue for their creativity. Mostly, they are looking to “do something” with their art. Most of us have come to the conclusion that we will never come to grips with time in a way that allows us to finish an animated production, (even with Blender’s efficiency factor), of even short story proportions.

But, that does not mean that we couldn’t do something interactively creative and entertaining, at the same time, that would get our imaginative points across to the masses.

Greg Smith


(goldentaiji) #15

:stuck_out_tongue: Hehe our assumptions are somewhat different then. From what I’ve seen so far, most of the games that do get created in blender come from programmers or teams(we’re too lazy to code higher levl, with C++ and the likes (needs a lot more knowledge), blender’s easy to use game creation, and the no-compile game start)). Yep, fellow hobbyists qualify as that too and there’s also others that are half, half.

Me included I’m more of a programmer(scripter might be the correct term since I’m mostly python scripting in blender). Lol, those in my category can probably model/rig/texture a bit (all the needed blender basics), but probably not to the extent of a really good artist (generalizing here).

Well there are a few artists that have turned towards the game engine (I’ve seen some). I don’t know if the software you’re proposing can actually be a complete no-coding solution. Blender could be like that with all it’s logic bricks, but from experience and countless others, it can get really messy without at least a little coding (There’s some things you can never get away from). Hmm… maybe if they can release some sorta demo or something, that’ll definitely spark some interest (ie: like the torque demo). %| Most people don’t really know this, but the Torque demo actually provides a fully function Torque GE. You just won’t have access to all the tutorials, and source code to modify the Torque GE like real members.

Jason Lin


(doogs) #16

what was this product called?

did it have networking?

ronc


(gorgan_almi) #17

Hi Greg

This sounds like an interesting program, sort of like a 3D version of The Games Factory. Honestly I wouldn’t buy it though. The Games Factory was fun when I was a kid but it was far too limited to use for real game production. I think anything that doesn’t allow you to code would be the same. I eventually found GameBlender, and I’ve never used The Games Factory since! :slight_smile:

As far as CrystalBlend is concered, my understanding is that Jorrit and CrystalBlend have no official standing in the game engine development at all. Erwin intends to continue Sumo development integrated into Blender regardless. That is my understanding, things could have changed though…

Keith. 8)


(doogs) #18

well if it does allow expansion of scripting then why not ?

RonC


(gorgan_almi) #19

free = yes please

$1+ = no thanks i’ll stick with GameBlender :stuck_out_tongue:


(ChicOrtiz) #20

:slight_smile: Hey Greg What is your account number?
Lol.
Sounds very interesting. Repeating doogs: does it allow multiplayer?
And: Will be a tutorial structure teaching HOW to use Blender’s realtime geometry, textures, and riging in this software?
If this tutorial path exists, Will be it available for free? %|