Mac: M3 - *Hardware accelerated RT (Part 1)

yes it was, should be ok in the current release version but I would have to find a file to check.

Unless it was one of the 3.4 betas :thinking:
3.4 should be out tomorrow or any day now.

Not using Eevee a lot at the moment.

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How much Ram Do you guys use ? That have m1 PRO Macs?
And how does it work for u in blender?

Cheers

I have been using Eevee a lot lately and I can confirm that it is resolved.
I’m on the Ventura and 3.5 alpha.

On a 16GB mini and I do find it lacking in large scenes.
But with the unified memory and swap from my super fast internal SSD it hasn’t been too big of an issue.

I’ll definitely Mac out the RAM when the newest Studio drops. I think they’re at 128GB as of now.

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living dangerous I see :wink:

I try beta and alpha sometimes but I usually don use them when I make something.

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Haha yeah.

I have a M1 Pro with 32 GB, what buggs me more is the GPU speed and not the Memory.

Not sure if that answers your question.

I am however a hobbyist and not a pro.

I think I will get the M2 Max as soon as it comes even if it has no RT, I want / need more GPU cores. Getting the double binned 14” was not the best choice I made back then.

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Believe me, you will soon be disappointed if you compare it to an RTX card, even older and in Laptops. The whole unit memory thing is useless if you enjoy the pure speed of that GPU. Loading textures, that take 2 min on the M1 in just seconds is screwing every love for the Mac. After two year hoping Apple doing finally something right, after Jobs passed away, I more and more think the Silicon chip was another bad idea like touch bar and butterfly keyboard was. I see no future here, where Apple is finally on a level with Nvidia. And that must be the only goal for any serious artists.

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Meanwhile I am as pessimistic for Apple as you are.

But for different reasons.
I do not agree with what you said above.

They may have worked on that M1 for 15 years.
But everything what they did for M1 was absolutely great.

Deleting most x96 Bottlenecks, shared memory, ARM, …
They did everything right there and the M1 basic SoCs and early machines
were absolutely great.

What frustrates and concerns me is that they were not able to scale that up
to Pro/Max/Ultra AND now 2 years later to embarrassing M2 basic.
And if the numbers “leaked” are true, this may also be true for their (4.5 nm ?)
M2 Pro/Max/Ultra’s !?

Just more cores, a bit more memory and a bit overclocked and more power consumption ?
Basically Apple stalled in performance for 2 years now,
after 15 years of over pacing performance/year of x86 with iPhone ARM chips - until
they reached x86 performance in general and at much better effiviency.
And now 2 years stand still.
With the vision that the next step, which we expected for at least end of this year,
only maybe happening in 1-2 years ?
And all above the base models, for pretty steep prices.

2012 was peak Apple.
2020 was another peak interrupting Apples fall (from a desktop point of view)

But where are you going to, Apple ?

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Who knows what their plan is.

I am sure glad they invested into Blender and still are.

Also nice that they show an interest in Stable Diffusion and released that on github.

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Surly Apple did everything right, if you not doing 3D as extensive as an artist does. However with AI its going to put GPU for another pice or work. For example, I use AI for denoising and masking in Fusion. The RTX is many times better here then my M1. I prefer the Mac, alone the color management is so many times better then Windows does. But I render the final stuff on Windows, as its so many times faster.
In the end, doing rendering on Mac is no fun anymore. Compositing also. Its all about speed and here its more like 10 times faster with an RTX card. Thats insane. And no, Apple has not missed something, they produce the same level of chips Nvidia does in the same fabrics. Its just Apple doesn’t like big computers and loud fans.
The M1 is great like the iPad is great, but not for artist anymore.

Some would argue that big loud machines are not the future, perhaps they are ahead of their time :man_shrugging:

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Using and toggling between 9 programs (none 3D rendering) up on my M1 MacBook Pro and no fan noise is pretty cool.

Typing this on my Intel iMac with four programs up (none 3D rendering) with loud fan noise, sure does feel like the old times.

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Yes, M1 devices where just low level devices, like a Macbook Air.
No 3D artist would really care about these.

But many like me bought them (M1 Mini 16 GB) just for fun to play with them.
And had to realize that these ultra low devices were far more capable than expected.

So therefore, of course, we all hoped for how capable real Apple workstations would be.
But that did not really happen/scale with Studio Ultra.
(How often did I complain in the past that Apple does not finally offer a top less device
vs their iMac 27". Now it came and … I want an iMac 27" !?)

Now it looks there will come a Mac Pro at some point in the future.
While after Mac Pro 2019 it seems obvious that no one of our target group can ever
afford one, it even looks like it may be even more unsatisfying in performance vs a PC.
(And Mac Pro 2019 performance/$ was already really lackluster at release)

Thing is that really prefer to work with macOS over Linux and especially Windows
for many various reasons. And macOS or Windows (a bit) still offer support for some
of my essential professional and peripheral Software, which Linux does not (yet).

But if Apple will even breach or counteract their Privacy promise it will get hard.

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We all are in the same boat. The Mac OS has huge advantages, no body really want to give up. Starts with writing a letter or viewing a pdf, Mac User wonder why they should buy a subscription for Adobe or Microsoft Office to do that. Alone the amount of software you need to see images, do backups, view files, unzip, etc. is terrifying.
So like everyone I keep my Mac as long as possible and hoping Apple comes up with an affordable solution, that doesn’t cost as much as a car, just to have a decent performance. But, currently no sign of that. Apple instead rices the prices. Headphones for 300,- an iPhone almost at 2000,- and still no decent GPU… sorry, that the end of Apple to me.

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I also tried hard not to leave Apple since at least 2015.
Gave up and retried at 2018 with a Windows PC build, failed because of Windows.
Decided that I want not to and go on suffering …

M1 made hope that this is the turn around.
(+ renouncing of butterfly keyboard and such in 2019)

But since 2020 M1 release they do not deliver anymore …
It is so depressing.

Wanted to finally upgrade my iPhone 5s with an recent iPhone (Pro)
(meanwhile I get supported by abandoned devices from niece and nephew …)
With iPhone 14 I got tired after some time to check iPhone 13 Pro’s as being
better value. Prices of 2013 models increased more and more.
Thought about replacing my really dying iPad Air2 battery but waited for iPads
in 2022. Looking at specs and prices did non of these. iPad Air 2 now permanently
on cable …

My M1 Mini was thought to last for one year, as of my typical hardware spend/year.
Now it is already the second year in use for 90% of my work …
So it paid already more than off - like my double upgrade priced Mac Pro 2.1 from 2007,
that was used 8 years (5 more than planned) because of nothing noticeable better
(2 times performance) in sight until 2012 - which I did unfortunately bus because
Apple rumored a better Mac Pro → a Trash Can Video station …

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Believe it or not, there are those who are just selling RTX cards to buy Radeons. They are so stupid that they can’t see that RTX is 10 times faster than Radeon. Probably they should see a doctor. Unfortunately, I am one of those nutters.

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Actually I can’t compare both. Some renderfarm using ATI based cards for GPU rendering. Absolute no idea, why you bringing that up?

Dirty little secret… dGPU cards are going to be irrelevant for 3D scenes in the not to near future. Only big fast cards will be needed if you want to cut back render times but honestly even the slowest GPUs can render hundreds of frames in minutes using UE5.1
4090s are going to be for gamers. With other DCCs making AS Native versions i.e. Houdini where simulations are calculated on the AS GPU, dGPUs are going to become more and more less of an issue for artist.

Unreal 5 is taking over. I’ve been trying some of my scenes with UE 5.1 (Rosetta) and it looks freaking amazing.
Now that Unreal is going to have a native version for AS who cares if you are getting 400 FPS for your 3d environment. When setting up a scene, honestly you only needs 1 FPS. Rosetta M1s already do 30-60 on really dense scenes. Can’t wait for the native Unreal builds and the new machines to drop.

I’ll still build (unless kit bashing buildings or objects which have native unreal builds) and animate in Blender, but Nanite is just freaking incredible and not to mention Lumen with hybrid RT.
The scenes you can build in Unreal is crazy, with so little overhead, and with the massive amount of VRAM Macs allow… holy smokes! People already making add-ons that link your objects from Blender to Unreal with real-time mesh updates… exciting times.

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Yes, that is great.
(I alway searched for the character to appear in reflections too …
but maybe it did at one point, not sure. Still imrpressing)

But would a Nvidia card have any disadvantages ?
And why not a native Apple ARM version, despite no RT hardware acceleration ?

I am far from being an expert. But for me it looks like Apples optimizations in
Video Editing support was always far ahead vs any 3DCC so far.
Now they help Blender and AFAIK they/we see that they are not as far as they
could been already.
And now we see that even their light tower FinalCutX falls back behind Video
3rd party solutions.