Mac or PC? the age old question

[StompinTom (Tom)]

@cekuhnen

maybe os x is a modified linux - so what?
it works well and based on my experience works way better than windows xp.
at least apple innovates the system and makes it ready for main stream compared to
windows who simply fails again and again with their attempt to imitate.
I would say Vista is just the high point of their stupidity.
That a company so rich and powerful than MS is so incompetent is a mystery to me.

I’ve used Vista extensively with little to no problems. I’m not gonna say A is better than B, but just that Vista, and now Windows 7, hasn’t given me anything to gripe about.

@cekuhnen

I never crashed file formats with usb disks as with XP.
blue screens and windows crashes don’t happen so often with os x
for those who can make good use out of them, the apps apple supplies offer a much more
consistent and working experience.
virus, and maleware is not an issue on os x
there is no registry pain with os x
the mac hardware doesn’t lose that much money.
My macbook fall down two times without out damage to the display or cracks.
just the casing is damaged now with some dents. I saw plastic casings scatter.

Again, and I’m furiously knocking on wood as I write this, I’ve gotten a BSOD once, maybe twice and no real virus and malware problems. I’m pretty careful, have a light anti-virus program installed (AVG) and just don’t go balls out on the internet and go to sketchy sites.

Regarding the hardware, you’re gonna bust up the stock casings and Mac laptops DO come with aluminum bodies that are pretty tough, though I’ve seen those dented up and screens cracked as well. You should just be careful with your machine regardless.

@cekuhnen

even when you need win you can have a hardware platform which supports both worlds.
some differences are marginal - but some are not at all.
so simple as you state you cannot see it.
(…)
I understand your point but it is not that simple either.
Only because maybe PC x has a bigger display etc doesn’t mean that the quality of the display is as good, or the hardware platform works as well and time.
otherwise it is rather a apples vs bananas comparision

Yeah, and I think in a large part it just boils down to personal preference. For what I do, most of the software comes out faster for Windows and I’m comfortable with it. Other people use Macs and are perfectly fine with it. I hate this argument.

[spacetug]

Will Windows 7 be a nightmare?

not at all, IF you have good enough specs. (don’t try it on a netbook, in other words)

2. PC = Personal Computer = means MAC isn’t personal = LOL

=FAIL. PC means a computer that’s yours. Macs are a brand of PC. PC != Windows.

If your careful, malware and viruses don’t have to be a big problem on Windows.

quoted for truth. use your head, and you won’t get infected.

from my limited experience, linux may be better in some way, but there’s always going to be some luddite who can’t seem to get anything to work with your linux computer, and blame it on linux.
stupidity sucks, not the OS.
at least a windoze is compatible with everything, although that does mean viruses too.

i love XP. i hate Vista. i like 7.
none of them are really that great, though.

there is no best choice, it really depends on what you want.

[shadowbane]

If you go the mac route you can run a lot of windows software through wine (just as you can on linux)

Being a linux user I have never really seen the alure of the macs, they seem overpriced, and limited in customization. Windows is better in this respect.

As a second year CS major, I have not found anything that I needed a specific system for, so I run in linux except for when I am playing games (because some have annoying issues with wine. I will be booting into windows less in the next year when steam releases for linux though)

And on the windows 7 front, it is actually pretty good. It can run on hardware that isn’t much better than what is needed for XP, and the UAC is better than it was in vista. I would recommend getting something with win 7 installed, and possibly trying out linux and seeing if you like it.

[sundialsvc4]

In my office I happen to have “several of each.” Linux, OS/X, and Windows machines are all here, simultaneously purring away. I have a love/hate relationship with all of them. :spin:

To my way of thinking, it comes down to this:

• Computers are cheap now. You can afford to splurge. (And if you can’t, then the world is also stuffed to the rafters with perfectly good computers that are “slightly un-loved.”)
• Neither Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates really gives a damn what you buy. Furthermore, in less than three years it will be “obsolete.” :yes:
• Once you buy (anything), you can never get rid of the thing, so you may as well use it for something … such as, for instance, rendering.
• If you have a particular application, that for whatever reason you want to run, that for whatever reason runs best on a particular operating system, then that alone is justification … either to buy a computer that runs that OS natively, or to run the OS in a virtual-machine (if you can). Your choice.
• Otherwise, “don’t just stand there… buy something, and put it to work!” (Rendering, of course.)
• If you, for whatever reason, prefer something, or feel more comfortable with something, then (absent Reason #4) that also is justification for buying that machine. But don’t get Reasons #4 and #6 reversed…

The reason why I have “all those boxes” is a combination of Reasons #3 and #4.

[arexma]

@cekuhnen

to say you can do everything in windows is as flawed as saying you cannot do everything with os x.
there is - in terms of functions and usability a lot you could not get the same experience with xp.

Measured on the majority of computer users, “all” would be the coverage of windows. But that would be too easy.
Counterquestion, what can you do with a MacOS what Windows can´t? Besides using proprietary stuff like e.g. FinalCut?

… I feel your opinion is quite biased.
Sure as hell is. Your´s isnt?
I feel an opinion is always biased, else it is conditioned and all would be uniform, and this kind of stuff is called dictatorship, then again, it would be biased too, just everything would have the same orientation. =) scnr
I am actually torn between the worlds, I worked in the game buisiness, now for a film studio, but i am originally a design draftsman and studying computer sciences along the path - so neither an artist nor an engineer, torn, yet i´d stand in the row of the pragmatists - but I never came across any task that required a Mac, nor would it have made my tasks easier - just my bank account more empty.
It´s no matter of hating Mac from my side. Just a matter of not understanding or seeing any advantages - unless it is a PPC.
Besides I dislike Apple for its company policy more and more lately, they pull quite a few stunts and soon will turn out to be more evil than M$ in the 90’s

maybe os x is a modified linux - so what?
[cut list of advantages]

90% of the stuff isn´t an issue if you know your windows as for the rest.
Why do i need a mac and macos, when any x86 box with linux does exactly the same trick.
In the end the difference is the UI.

the mac hardware doesn’t lose that much money.
I think that is not a valid argument in any way. as a Mac usually stays within Mac users.
You know, it feels like the Appleists (i call them that way because i got no better word) made up the worth, and the hardware gets passed down to another Appleist.
I´ve never heared an x86 box user say :" Hell, now I buy a used mac for more money than a faster new machine would cost, because for sure the hardware will holds its value"

My macbook fall down two times without out damage to the display or cracks.
just the casing is damaged now with some dents. I saw plastic casings scatter.

Lucky you, sending it in would have ended in an odyssey =)
However, with a Thinkpad you can as well hammer in a nail, nothing fancy there, cheap stuff is cheap, a Thinkpad for instance is pricey, still cheaper than a macbook, yet it got more power.

what car do you drive?
opel astra 1.6 =)
why? low fuel usage, powerful enough, lots of room, could afford it. And I bought it used. No matter what car it is, it looses too much value in the first 2 years…
Unless you buy a Maserati, Maibach or something like that - then again, when you buy such a car, you don´t buy it because “it will hold its value”… thats the stuff you tell your wife to justify paying a ridiculous amount of money for a car… that drives… and keeps you dry… and transports stuff… well I doubt there´s a Maibach Station Wagon or a Maserati with trailer coupling… but I think you get it =)

Actually thats a nice anachronism…
(My Opel) : (Maybach car body with my Opels chassis) = (X86 Box) : (Nowadays Mac)

Why anyone buys what, is anyones choice.

Only because maybe PC x has a bigger display etc doesn’t mean that the quality of the display
is as good, or the hardware platform works as well and time.

And you think Apple knits their panels from some magic stuff the others dont have?
There are not many panel manufacturers in this world, and you get them in all qualities, granted, but its not about the panels.
Simply speaking in terms of equal power, the Mac looses in the price-performance ratio.
I´ll actually do some research on the parts used in a Mac once in a while i am intrested now, what manufacturers they use to be more specific on that one… I am a litte unarmed carrying the discussion into that direction =)

Man, I love this thread already, for the sake of the discussion, just to point that out, I am aware that neither mine nor your point of view will change anytime soon, nor am I trying to change yours… Wanted to clarify that, because people often get personally offended in such threads.

[cekuhnen]

this all is too funny to read …

be reasonable.
in happy world everything would be great and perfect but this is not happy world.
In case the systems were so easy than I ask myself why the tech at each
university I worked sofar were always busy with fixing windows.

you cannot expect that everybody is on the same geek level others are.

and that you need to consider for marketing as well as purchase.

nor win or os x in most cases prevent you from doing something.
the comfort and environment you want is also what you pay for.

[arexma]

@cekuhnen

this all is too funny to read …
be reasonable.

Wow, now thats a worthwhile input to the discussion.

I am serious. I got absolutely no understanding what what Appleists find with the Macs, willing to undestand though. The problem is, i´ve NEVER EVER got an answer to my first question, I usually ask when a Mac user justifies his expense with design and MacOs:

What can you do with a MacOS what Windows can´t? Besides using proprietary stuff like e.g. FinalCut?
Why would someone that has the knowledge of the technical advantages of MacOS over Windows not choose Linux?

@cekuhnen

I ask myself why the tech at each university I worked sofar were always busy with fixing windows.

Firstly, because it is their job and secondly, if you maintain a windows family right, there´s less to repair, you just got to keep stupid people doing stupid things. But then again, if everything stupid has be done, nature brings out someone doing even more stupid stuff.

However, you’r comparing apples with tomatoes.
You are comparing ones home system to computer systems by hundrets of different users, that don´t care about the system at all because it is not theirs. And they don´t give a sh** because they have no buying relation to it, although they passively did, and because the techs are there.

Digging cars out again:
what would a car look like, that would be free to use for everyone with a driver license for no cost, parked in the street, with a mechanic keeping it running. All paid by the goverment with taxmoney. Wouldn´t matter if it would be a Maibach, Volov, a Skoda, Dacia or a freaking Tank. It would be a wreck too soon.

[Michael_W]

I was bemused by my sister at christmas… she was trying to tell me that her friend had said mac os was best for designers…

I tried to point out that all the important design apps don’t care if they run on mac or windows and are available on both… I tried to explain that the hardware is the same thing… there’s no magic there anymore… that back in the 90s it might have been true that design apps worked better on mac and that the hardware used to be different… but sadly she couldn’t be convinced, despite having no knowledge of her own about it…

sometimes “most expensive” and “best known branding” is just too powerfully connected to “best” in people’s minds…

the thing is, designers need to look stylish, and a mac book pro looks stylish… and for years and years they’ve been justifying the style over the content…

presentation and surface are the marketplace advantage that macs have over windows and linux…
Mac users are cool
linux users are geeks
windows users are the lowest common denominator…

Branding is king

if image is important to you then buy a mac…

It’s like the old ferarri marketing joke:

Ferarri: for men who want to sleep with beautiful women they hardly know!

[trancerobot]

@arexma

Wow, now thats a worthwhile input to the discussion.

I am serious. I got absolutely no understanding what what Appleists find with the Macs, willing to undestand though. The problem is, i´ve NEVER EVER got an answer to my first question, I usually ask when a Mac user justifies his expense with design and MacOs:

What can you do with a MacOS what Windows can´t? Besides using proprietary stuff like e.g. FinalCut?
Why would someone that has the knowledge of the technical advantages of MacOS over Windows not choose Linux?.

You can do the same thing with all computers, and all mainstream operating systems. However, as the family computer repair person, I often find myself tempted to tell my relatives and friends to buy Macs, so they’ll leave me alone. (and I would never suggest Linux to them… that would be a support nightmare for me)

(I hope) Most of us here on BlenderArtists are computer literate, so it does not matter what we use. It becomes an issue of preference, rather than a specific feature - because all systems share the basics. You can browse the web on all computers, play games on all computers, watch movies on all computers. You computer doesn’t even have to be that fast anymore - but both Macs and PCs can match each other in speed with the right hardware.

All you’re really choosing is the operating system these days. If you want a new operating system, you do your research - compare and contrast features. Chances are you will find them evenly matched with what you care about.

It’s not at all a matter of religion. It’s a matter of what you need.

That said, I will answer the question posed in the first post - get a Mac. :ba:
Why? If you can afford it - get it. You’ll have the best of both ‘worlds’, and quality hardware and support.

I use a PC because I’m broke. Again, It’s not a religion, and there’s not a killer feature one has that the other does not. It’s more of a matter of preference and funds.

[DonCrone]

yeah I think it is personal preference above all other. and yes, I realized Mac is also a “personal computer”, I just figured you knew what I meant by pc (Windows os as opposed to apple os)

[Pipeline]

I guess the most cautious answer is “get a PC” (i.e. a non-Mac). You might lose something either way, this way it’s cheaper. And if you do go wrong with a Windows PC, you can install Ubuntu or another Linux for free. I don’t think you can install Linux on a Mac if you feel cheated by OSX, but I honestly no longer know. Can you?

EDIT: Wow, apparently you can! Plus you can run Mac programs on Linux. So hell, get whatever is cheapest, you can apparently flip the OS around as you’d like. Damn… things are getting merged left and right these days!

[shadowbane]

@Pipeline

Plus you can run Mac programs on Linux.

Um… No, you can’t. You can run them in a osX vm, but you could do that under widows too… Some linux applications can be compiled to work on macs, but not the other way around.

[Alltaken]

@cekuhnen

Alltaken,

where are you from n- is the price difference there so hight??? Laptop PCs with the same quality and specs are equal if you want even more also more expensive. The MacPro is truly a bit expensive, but actually quite many PC mags noted that high
quality laptops are pricewise not better, which is why Apple was actually awarded the best in
category.

I’m in New Zealand.

For many years we had a monopoly for the supply of Apple products. Apple recently cancelled this exclusive distribution deal so the prices have come way down, but are still higher than PC’s here.

When i first looked for my first computer, i wanted a mac.
at the time for the same price i could get:
MAC: 800Mhz, 256Mb ram, 32Mb vid card, round 1024x768 monitor emac
PC: 2.4Ghz, 1Gb ram, flatscreen 19" 1600x1200 professional monitor.

I chose the PC quite naturally! At the time 512Mb ram was massive.

Last week when I purchased my Laptop, The following two were similar prices with the apple coming in slightly more
Note that my decision was not based on price (since I bought an expensive laptop) but what based on 2 crucial features that I wanted.
:
Sony (note the product codes change, so I think this is the same as what I purchased)
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666075673

Apple
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC374LL/A?mco=MTc0Njg1ODA

As an industrial designer myself I must say that the Apple Brand is amazing, and they have created an ultra consistent image and experience from hardware through to software, through to interaction. However, also being an industrial designer I don’t like to conform, and it seems that apple is the way to conform these days so i avoid it at all costs (although we did purchase an iPod touch and wireless apple keyboard for my Valve Radio).

Just on the topic of Industrial Design, Apple still cannot make a mouse! they give people RSI and are dangerous to your health to use. Our university put Microsoft mice on all apple computers to meet their legal health and safety obligations, even their multi-touch mice break all ergonomic principals. Very cool mice, but they totally miss the point for an interface device.

Again I say to anyone purchasing something, do you homework and get what you need, it may be an Apple product and it may not be.

I had 2 things I would not budge on:
I wanted a Matte Screen
I wanted a full sized Keyboard

I got both, neither were offered by Apple

[Pipeline]

@shadowbane

Um… No, you can’t. You can run them in a osX vm, but you could do that under widows too… Some linux applications can be compiled to work on macs, but not the other way around.

To me, it counts as running Mac programs on Linux (if it works, of course). WINE means you can run (most?) Windows programs on Linux. And yes, I am sure you can run the other OS platform programs on the other OSs, too. I just didn’t see that by accident.

So initial OS seems to hardly matter(?). Buy something in your budget that looks and feels nice to you. Then apply the OS you want, be it by installation, VM or whatever. That’s how it looks to me, at least.

[zeffii]

@Alltaken

Just on the topic of Industrial Design, Apple still cannot make a mouse! they give people RSI and are dangerous to your health to use. Our university put Microsoft mice on all apple computers to meet their legal health and safety obligations,…

yeah, mac mice where designed to look good, not feel good or be usable, they’ve been plagued by this problem for years… it boggles the mind. i’m typing this on a mac keyboard, older washable one, attached to a dell studio 15 laptop with an external 22" syncmaster. does what i need.

interesting that your uni changed all mice to non mac mice, someone got brains (or mac mice experience)

[onemanblend]

Also keep in mind that depending on what kind of college you will go to, there might be an existing program in place which lets you buy not only software, but also hardware at reduced prices!
For example, I have a student card which enables me to buy the whole Autodesk box for as little as $191.25 CAN for 13 months of use
Should you make design your future career, I’m 99% sure that the college will already have a deal set up with Apple.
I’d do some research and see what’s available via the college bookstore first!

[shadowbane]

@onemanblend

Also keep in mind that depending on what kind of college you will go to, there might be an existing program in place which lets you buy not only software, but also hardware at reduced prices!
For example, I have a student card which enables me to buy the whole Autodesk box for as little as $191.25 CAN for 13 months of use
Should you make design your future career, I’m 99% sure that the college will already have a deal set up with Apple.
I’d do some research and see what’s available via the college bookstore first!

Despite my school having a deal with apple I was able to get my linux box with like 2x the specs as I could get in a mac for less than I could have gotten a mac for…

[Atom]

The whole final cut studio has been making me money, the Microsoft products have not. I use OSX at work and Windows at home.

Linux is still a hobby for me, the last Sabayon 5.1 install I tried failed to boot back up, so I set Linux aside again.

@Michael W: What most designers cry about is Windows lack of font support. It is true, as I use more Mac software, the font support is way more robust. Even companion Adobe programs can not show me roman versions of the same font on Windows. Everyone has known about this font problem since Window 3.1 but Microsoft has never bothered to fix it. So I would have to say, from an agency point of view, there is no reason to use Windows for design (mainly print here). Windows limits the designers options when it comes to font choices. Not that OSX does not have a limit to the number of fonts, I am not talking about font count, but the representation of the font family itself is more complete on OSX.

[C-106_Delta]

Um… No, you can’t. You can run them in a osX vm, but you could do that under widows too… Some linux applications can be compiled to work on macs, but not the other way around.
Wrong. You can run Mac OSX in VMWare on Windows and Linux. However, you should be aware that Apple’s license forbids running Mac OSX on “unauthorized” hardware. Therefore, running Mac in VMware is illegal. The only way around the “legal issue” would be to reverse engineer mac’s binary format (which would be difficult) and then make a Wine-like environment to run Mac programs on Windows and Linux.

[Louie_The_17th]

@DonCrone"

Im sure this topic has been debated many many times on this forum or in life in general, but I’m going to reopen the case.

This fall, I’m going away to college. I’ve been using a middle-of-the-line pc for about 2 years now, and I’m going to buy a new computer. Do I buy a mac or a pc?? I like the quality and look of apple products, but I fear I’m going to be limited in the software I can run on a mac. If I go the pc route, I guess I would get the Sony vaio, with 4gb ram and 500gb drive. As far as mac, I’m undecided. Will Windows 7 be a nightmare?

no windows 7 will not be a nightmare… it’s amazing… possibly Microsoft best OS