macOS is deprecating openGL


(thomas_p) #319

Apple and 3D applications a focus - really? I don’t think I’ve ever seen this. Video, photo and design/motion graphics: now that I’d agree with.

Regardless I’d be devastated if Blender was not available for the Mac anymore. After having been locked into Windows with 3ds max for a decade and a half it’s great to finally have a 3D app that runs more or less anywhere. Please never change that… :slight_smile:

(Sent from my Mac … Pro)

(Ace Dragon) #320

Linux would still be an option, I know that many distros have serious ease-of-use issues yet (ie. the expectation of learning to use the console), but Linux Mint Cinnamon edition at least is focused on making everything easier to access and use.

Disclaimer; I am currently on Windows 10 Pro and have not tried Linux for myself (in part because I use a couple of programs that are Windows only).

(EdgeMaster) #321

You good sir, are correct!

(Sent from my Macbook Pro :smiley: )

(BeerBaron) #322

I don’t see a lot of support from “3d application” vendors regarding Metal. These are often really old codebases using OpenGL exactly because it has cross-platform support. Throwing that out to support multiple rendering backends would be a massive engineering effort.

Game engines on the other hand need to support multiple platforms, so adding another backend is not such a big deal.

It’s also not the case that Metal increases performance across the board. If you have a lot of individual (non-instanced) objects, you can get a speedup. If you have just one big mesh that you are editing, Metal (or Vulkan, or D3D12) will do nothing for you. You will be bottlenecked either by CPU->GPU updates or by GPU throughput.

(Metin Seven) #323

Guys, guys, listen to grandpa!

(Ace Dragon) #324

Funny you mention that, there is actually a fairly new Amiga product currently on the market.

While I don’t see much of a use for Blender to support the platform outside of earning brownie points with nerds, someone can always take the code and give it a try. :slight_smile:

(Metin Seven) #325

If I’m not mistaking, the very first Blender version ran on an Amiga, which is of course enough reason for me to support it until death do us part.

There have been numerous attempts to revive the Amiga in the course of years. Do you think this will be the definitive attempt? I still like to install an Amiga emulator every now and then, and dive into the warm pool of childhood nostalgia. I used to be a designer of commercial Amiga games. I’ve got many precious memories of that time.

Sorry for the off-topic blabber by the way, guys.

(thomas_p) #326

Oh, I don’t mind the console/shell/terminal at all - it’s part of the attraction actually. This is simply the most userfriendly flavour of a Unix-alike system I’ve come across. Tons of apps to choose from, too.

My opinion of Linux however has not changed since the mid 90’s : constant work-in-progress; too much trouble to maintain a system over the years. Plus: commercial apps can be a chore on the wrong distro and quite a few good ones are not on the platform.
Reading manpages and googling for obscure workarounds for problems long solved anywhere else is not fun.

On the other hand Apple gear not only does ‘just work’ but they also make the neatest Laptops so we can take Blender with us and look fashionable at Starbucks. :wink:

(thomas_p) #327

[quote=“Metin_Seven, post:323, topic:1113803, full:true”]

Actually, assuming grandpa was a 3D artist working (as in paid :wink: ) back in the day he would have most likely worked on an SGI. And I do believe that’s what Blender was originally written for when it was an inhouse app?

(BeerBaron) #328

Except when it “just doesn’t work”, like when you’re trying to develop software using OpenGL or (worse yet) OpenCL.

You rarely get to see that as user, because developers don’t like to ship software that doesn’t actually work. You never get to see the projects that are canned mid-development. You never get to see software that isn’t developed or ported in the first place, because of the bad reputation that Mac OS has accrued in this regard.

Maybe, sometimes, you get to see it as user of FOSS software like Blender, with a “let the users do the QA” attitude. But then those Mac OS bugs don’t necessarily get fixed either, because the only way to reproduce them is to buy thousands of dollars worth of “designer hardware”.

Yeah, maybe that’s the problem. People don’t actually want to do any real work on proper computers, they want to look affluent while pretending to work while sitting in a coffee shop.

(Metin Seven) #329

SGI offered the high-end CGI systems back in the Amiga days, only affordable for bigger studios. The Amiga was a mid-end system, affordable for consumers and small-scale developers. I was a 2D pixel artist, working with Deluxe Paint (a.k.a. DPaint), a fabulous pixel editor that would be comparable to Photoshop + After Effects these days.

Between creating pixel graphics I did fiddle around with Sculpt 3D, the first consumer-level 3D editor as far as I know. Very elementary, but nevertheless an exciting early 3D tool. The famous Juggler demo was created with Sculpt 3D:

(thomas_p) #330

Yeah I know - hence the ‘3D artist’. Unlike SGI Amiga as far as I’m aware had no hardware 3D acceleration and a CPU a good chunk weaker than the PC’s to brute force it i software (perhaps though with one of those addon graphics boards?) and there was no Softimage or Alias equivalent which is what you had on IRIX.

I do recall Sculpt (but I think it was called ‘4D’?) Played with it as a kid. :slight_smile:

Btw. SGI started at the ‘low end’ with the Indy at around 5000+ which was already very decent and made the Amiga look weak - it wasn’t ALL machines more expensive than the parent’s house.

(thomas_p) #331

I get that - heard this plenty of times from developers. Also there are some really weak/restricted Mac ports around for a few apps. It’s just that for the end user that is a pleasant system IMO. Easy to keep up to date, install/deinstall, etc. Also very responsive when busy with background tasks. If all you want is to be productive then I find it to be a good choice.

And yeah, definitely there are those that buy into the platform for posing - and I like to make fun of them (I never go to Starbucks either) :slight_smile: . It’s the only tech brand with high street fashion cred after all. But the machines I know and had from them so far are also really sturdy and reliable.

(noki paike) #332

:joy::heart_eyes: just a masagin! a guru meditation

(thomas_p) #333

wouldn’t a picture of a zombie be more appropriate to describe the state of the amiga? :wink:

(noki paike) #334

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(thomas_p) #335

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(noki paike) #336

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(kabu) #337

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(noki paike) #338

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