Yeah, and it would be nice to see Blender rigging system updated to something like Modo has. And it’s baking workflow. I mean, there still is no antialiasing for baking in Blender. And those round corner shader in Modo…
You can make a macro recorder using Python. It’s quite easy. There are some tutorials on youtube.
Oh yea, there’s a lot of really great stuff I miss from Modo too:
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Render outputs anywhere in the shader tree. Hopefully, Lucas’ AOV node will take care of this.
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Render animation sequence from the preview window. Just set a time you want each frame or the entire animation to render for and walk away. It will figure out how much time to render each frame and just go on to the next frame as soon as that time limit is hit. I think this is something that would be totally easy to do in Blender. Actually, I don’t know how we have gone on so long without having “Time” be a factor that you set to stop a frame rendering. It’s really, really useful. I actually do this in Modo instead of OpenGL “Play blast” style renders.
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Render Pass system where just about any parameter can be overridden per pass.
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Volumetric effects are sooooo much faster in Modo.
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Actually, the Modo renderer is just really fast and very high quality in general. So, I miss the Modo renderer too. Don’t get me wrong, I really love Cycles too. But I miss the simplicity of setting up renders and the speed of stuff like SSS and Motion Blur.
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The Retopo mode in Modo is really great too. I miss that so much that I usually bring my sculpts into Modo just to re-topo them.
Now that said, The list is a lot longer going the other way around. When I’m in Modo I wish for things like, simple modifier system, GPU rendering, super fast scene graph for animating, simplified rigging (!!!), liquid sim, smoke sim, cloth that actually works and looks good, great looking hair, dynamic paint, dynamic topology sculpting, a paint engine that actually works, Built in Compositing… the list goes on and on.
For me, Blender has some holes that Modo fills but Blender is a way more capable program on the whole.
I’m sorry… WHAT?!! No. Please no. Have you actually used Modo to rig? I have (on two jobs!) and it’s not fun. The IK is ridiculous, you mostly have to just forgo the whole full body IK and use 2 bone IK. The schematic is a mess and there is now logical flow to it when dealing with defromers. Deformers are double dog slow and very limited. You have to resort to very scene heavy and complex setups when you want to do things like cartoon arms and legs. Hell, even just a simple 3 bone twist is like 10 nodes. And no spline IK at all. The weight painting tools are… Ugh, don’t even get me started. There are so many other issues that I could go on about but I think you get the picture.
Modo gives you the impression that it has limitless potential as long as you are patient enough to string together dozens of nodes. And, I might be fine with that if it was true in the first place. But it’s not. Rigging takes a lot of time and effort. You need to streamline this process. Not make it more and more complex. It’s cool that you can rig together tons of nodes and make this really impressive looking graph but in the end it only automatically opens a closes a door. And to be sure, there are probably solutions to issues that you run into in Blender. But are these real-world issues that you come in contact with everyday?
In many ways Blender hits that sweet spot between being simple and easy to use yet deep and complex.
The main issue for me is that Modo put in all the rigging tools in version 601/701 and have not touched them since. that like 5 or 6 years of totally ignoring the animation community. Every version that comes out is meant to appease the Arch/Vis, engineering, product vis, and game asset creators. They just have very little interest in being a full DCC that competes directly with Autodesk. Which, if I’m being fair, is probable a better business strategy in the long run. The issue is that I bought into them back when I thought they were headed in that direction and have been seriously disappointed ever since. I love Modo and still do almost all of my character modeling in it but it urks me to no end that I can’t take it to the next level and just finish the project in the there.
My only problem with modo is the stupid way of working,dropping tool,all the extra clicks and even to copy an object can be a journey. Too much extra steps but i agree it still shine in the modelling sector. I do know it can be configured but that aint the spirit. The only way i see myself buying this app is when the INDIE comes out and even there,with them going rental at 599(?),I guess 299 could be dropped for the indie-model. Ohh and yeah,i still remember how just changing Tabs would bring modo to crash and people blaming the users for not having the exact needed hardware SMH,but i agree the 10th was a step in the right direction.
Huh? If you want the tools to drop right after you use them, there is a setting for that. By default it leaves it active until you drop it manually. This is an intentional design choice but you are not limited to that method. If you want to repeat the action, just hold shift and click. It is hardly stupid.
Copy and paste is as simple as control + c followed by control + v. How is that possibly a “journey”? There are things that do require too many steps but the ones you mentioned are not one of them.
I very much feel the same way. The character rigging tool set, as well as the rest of the general animation tool set was one of the first things that really impressed me and attracted me into using Blender seriously.
I think there is so much potential in the rigging tool set as it exists now and I’ve found it to be very adaptable and flexible, as well as capable of great complexity when needed. It’s innovating in some area’s too such as the new twisty stretchy Bbones.
There are just a few things to iron out such as more seamlessly incorporating outside objects ( data sets ) such as spline’s for spline IK. But there are a couple of good work arounds and it is still relatively easy to do some very nice spline set ups. But the recent developments with the Bbone paradigm seems to be a very good alternative in many cases. The use of drivers could perhaps be more streamlined and easier and quicker to do. A clear schematic view would be nice as well. But as far as I know issues like this are just waiting on the new dependency graph updates and then will be addressed.
So is this possibly going to become the sister thread now of the seemingly immortal Blender thread on the Modo Lux Foundry forum ? 
Discussion is always good. I’ve completely forgotten this thing with limiting frame render time for sequences - really nice feature. As well as the ability to stop, close Modo, open it again and be able to resume the progessive render fom where it was stopped.
I guess I put it the wrong way. There are things in Modo for rigging I’d like to see in Blender, not the complete system overhaul)) And yes, I did character rigging in Modo - there are problems but there’s a lot of good stuff to borrow from. Overall currently I do prefer to work in Blender, character rigging included.
Indeed, My point was they worked hard to make the first experience as awful as it gets. just like lightwave,Then i read on their forums how blender is so different because of right-click selecting.
As far as i remember you cant just copy\paste objects but duplicate your layer.
I read about that option of auto dropping tool and even a script that made the whole experience better, but it let me always wondering how much extra work should one put for the simplest and logical things that one expect. Like selecting without having to drop the tool to select the next face or not needing to press W to get the move arrows. I expect more from an intelligent program,the way they advertise modo!.
I will admit i didnt give it a fair shot, meaning “Changing” the options to normal status and spending the first days customazing what should be standard. But as i read on their forums,their own advanced users have a big problem with its stupid and uneeded extra steps\clicks.
No, not regarding the dropping of tools. A lot of programs make use of this paradigm, even in Blender you have to do an action to drop or accept the results of the tool, usually left click or hit enter. Additionally while its active you have sub options based on certain hotkeys. So really they are not all that far apart in this behavior. One reason for it is that unlike Maya, both Blender and Modo do not have the kind of history stack that lets you change parameters long after they were used. This means once you confirm the action, its done, unless you use a modifier approach.
If you want to claim the “first experience” is awful, then you could say “well they have trackball rotation on by default” which actually is a problem, as the use of trackball rotation is not something most people will be familiar with when using Modo for the first time. The method of triggering the tool then confirming it by dropping is not an issue, its a normal process that most applications can relate to in one way or another.
Right click select is fundamentally different. It follows no paradigm. In blender it is used to select but also cancel out certain tools once they are active. Not only does it not have consistent behavior but its completely unique with no common paradigm to pull from. So its not really something you can compare with Modo’s dropping of tools (optional).
As far as i remember you cant just copy\paste objects but duplicate your layer.
I use Modo, been using it since 701. Now on version 10. Control+C, Control+V, Control+X… these common controls for copy, paste, and cut all work in Modo. Select a face, control+ c to copy it, then control + v to paste it will create a duplicate of that face. You can do it to new object layers or the current one you are in. New object layers are created by simply clicking N.
If you want to copy an entire object, you can either select all with double click when in component mode or click the object in item mode and the same copy and paste rules apply. Additionally, you can right click the object layer in the object tree and select duplicate from the menu. There is also a hotkey for doing so as well as duplicating them as instances.
Its extremely basic stuff, very logical, very consistent. Its following a common paradigm.
I read about that option of auto dropping tool and even a script that made the whole experience better, but it let me always wondering how much extra work should one put for the simplest and logical things that one expect. Like selecting without having to drop the tool to select the next face or not needing to press W to get the move arrows. I expect more from an intelligent program,the way they advertise modo!.
I will admit i didnt give it a fair shot, meaning “Changing” the options to normal status and spending the first days customazing what should be standard. But as i read on their forums,their own advanced users have a big problem with its stupid and uneeded extra steps\clicks.
eh… if you “read about it” then why not toggle it in the settings? Isn’t that a simple and logical thing to do? If I want GPU rendering in Blender, I have to go to the settings and set it to GPU rather than the default CPU. Same thing. The dropping or confirming of a tool is a simple and logical thing, so I find it extremely odd that you pick this of all things as the example of bad over complicated design (when its actually the opposite).
As for dropping/confirming the tool to select the next face… how is that not logical? You are calling upon a function based on the current selection. Even Blender requires you to click to confirm or cancel before being allowed to select another face. Its really the same thought process being used here.
I can’t believe you are mentioning W for the transform widget as though its not “intelligent” or some how not logical. Triggering the transform widget with a hotkey is perhaps the most common element found found all 3D asset creation software. In Modo you do not need to click on the transform widget to move a selection either. Did you try just clicking and dragging in the viewport with the transform active? Its similar to using “grab” in Blender. Additionally, if you just tap click the transform widget will appear under the mouse location.
I really have no idea what you are complaining about. Its probably a good idea not to complain about non issues in software you havent spent enough time with to understand. I appreciate that you admit to not giving it a fair shot, but find issue that you think it boils down to customization in order to make it “normal”. It makes it sound like there is a problem with the user, not the application.
Like I implied earlier, there are tons of things to complain about in Modo, including some areas that do require multiple steps… but everything you mentioned was not one of them. Most of the “advanced users” on their forums are finding issue with the procedural modeling workflow, the meshfusion workflow, the way in which one works with the shader tree (using many nested menus)… these are legitimate concerns regarding excess “clicks”. Knowing the context and target of their ire is important.
On a side note, did you start with Blender? If so it can cause one to build up some bad habits and muscle memory, making it harder to adapt and learn other applications that follow more common/conventional paradigms in UX/UI design. Don’t forget Blender is getting a new Keymap and is addressing its UI design. This is being done for a reason. =)
So, I haven’t really run into any issues with needing outside object in my characters. Not saying it doesn’t happen, just not to me. I actually kind of like the fact that characters are self contained little units. As far as spines, I always use bendy bones now that they can use reference bones for the curvature. You only need to make a single weight map.
As far as a better drivers system, yes, this is exactly the feature I would take from Modo.
The “Relationships” from Modo are akin to “Set Driven Key” in Maya and that’s really the best way to handle driving one parameter with another when you don’t just want a direct one to one connection. In Modo you can either set up a direct connection or use an animation curve to “Shape” the control. It’s the same in Blender too but the UI for it is far to technical and obscure for such a simple concept. All you need is a way to pick the driver and the driven and there should be a UI that allows you to change the input value and then key the result in the driven object just like animating the parameter. For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, this is much more simple than it sounds. Have a look at Set Driven Key in Maya or relationships in “Modo” 
As I was explaining before, Modo’s schematic is a mixed bag. I’m actually looking forward to seeing what the Blender devs come up with when we finally get a constraint and modifier graph sometime during the 2.8 cycle. I really love the way nodes work in Blender. especially the fact that the controls are right on the nodes so you can see everything at a glance. That’s a really unique feature.
My main issue with Modo’s schematic is when dealing with deformers. In my mind, The graph should start with the base geometry, then that get’s modified with a deformer or generator and that in turn gets modified and so on until it reaches the geometry output. just like the shader graph. There is a logical flow and it’s easy to envision the end result and thus understand how to effect change in the graph. However in Modo, you have a geometry node and that goes out (or in I guess) to several different deformers (that are not connected to each other) that also go out to effectors which go back to the geometry nodes and sometimes there’s also some seemingly random connections to other nodes and none of this makes any kind of sense at all. Like I said, it’s a mess that completely ignores a logical “Flow” of data.
So yes, there are many features from Modo that should be ported to Blender but I just really hope they stay away from the schematic view.
Hey sorry for the terse response earlier. I just get a little weird about this kind of stuff. I think it would be helpful if you could point out exactly what features from Modo’s rigging system you would like to see in Blender. My fear is that telling developers that Blender needs to be “updated to something like Modo has” makes it should like the Modo rigging system is superior. What parts of the rigging system are you thinking of?
IMO modo can disappear even tomorrow, persuaded by the hype around the software I pored my money into Luxology poket, at first there was more bugs than tools, very unstable, after 5 release more or less the some bug, but in return… very unstable. The bad viewport performance was a plague from release 202, never fix it. I’m a user since 202 and stop waste money on release 601 (or 701? don’t remember).
At first the experience is frustrating, after customization Modo becoming more comfortable (like every software), but convoluted workflow, crash and bad performance still a plaguing your day by day job. Don’t know if they fixed some annoying bugs in the last release.
I had a chance to try rigging… well, a very bad experience.
Only things I really like is rendering and the too blamed shader tree (imo pretty simple and well done, really cannot understood why people hate so much). Also the preview rendering was very handy back in the day, very nice and well done.
I saw recently the node editor and was a confirm how Modo developers love complicate their and users lives.
I will be not so surprised if Foundry will drop the ball and sell or kill the software.
That’s a bit of an over exaggeration on your part Jholen. From what I remember, when Modo started off as a pure modeler… I doubt the bugs were all that numerous. I’d be willing to bet that the issues started to arise when more features were added outside of the basic set of modeling tools, which further complicated the application. The UI was also not set up for it, both on a performance level and on a design level. Blender can relate to this a bit, but perhaps more so on the design level than the performance one.
It wasn’t really a waste of money either since you could skip most of the upgrades and then update later with no penalty. For example, if you have a 201 license and then wait till version 901, it would have been one flat price point to get all those years of new features and bug fixes.
Ultimately the value relating to the software is going to be subjective. If someone can save hours a month by using Modo just for one feature, and they use it professionally then they saved a lot of money. Perhaps this is less apparent to the hobbyist, which is fine. Blender naturally has the best up front value in that you do not have to pay anything to use it.
I agree with the general sentiment over Modo’s design choices over time. The basic modeling, UV and retopo workflow is great. It is so well thought out, simplified and intelligent. Everything else feels like it was designed by someone else… with tons of unnecessary complexity. More likely the programmers did the designing rather than a dedicated UX designer being in charge. Its for this reason I do not use tools like Mesh Fusion or the new procedural modeling features.
After getting the PBR viewport, it feels like there is less reason to update these days.
Regarding Foundry selling Modo, that topic is definitely not new. It is hard to say what the private equity firm that owns Foundry will do, but generally their goal is to get a return on their investment. Killing Modo won’t do that. They would either invest into it further, with the attempt to compete with autodesk or sell it after increasing its value. They could also potentially try to shift people over to a service model and then reduce the actual investment into development, kind of like what Autodesk did with XSI and Mudbox at first. Those are worst case scenarios though, we’ll see what happens.
Modo is still over all a good tool, its up to the individual to see if the value it brings offsets the cost.
Release 201 introduced rendering engine, and many bugs. Ask to some older users, some bug from 201 are still there (until 601, now I don’t know).
Agree with you, is all really subjective, and I could be more happy to day if donated the some amount of money to blender foundation.
Also agree about uv, is pretty good and, in my opinion better than blender (Nothing so transcendental to make me want to open again modo, but is good in workflow and result, the drawback is inconsistency in uv island related to object proportions on the scene)
I was sure ADSK never kill XSI. Another option is Foundry take all the patent luxology had and use it elsewhere (IMO the render engine is pretty good)
For me it was the exact opposite. I expected them to do that because that is what they have always done. Additionally, XSI was a competing product and they already had two other software packages that were competing for the same market. So naturally they raided the talent and threw away the carcass.
Foundry is in a different position. Modo is not a product that competes with anything else they have. They wont kill it, they would have more to gain by just selling it off. The render engine isnt that great anymore to be honest. GPU render engines are far surpassing the older CPU based ones and the guy behind Modo’s render engine was dragging his feet on it. Thus I think Modo will eventually begin relying on third party rendering solutions.
I’ve always thought Modo would be a better fit with Black Magic Design. I actually saw a job posting a while ago from them looking for Modo people. So, there are even already using their software. 
Speaking of Modo and third-party engines, there has been some talk on the Modo forum calling for a Cycles integration (so an option there if you hate how Blender works in general, but love Cycles).
If you’re a Blender user, it’s still good news to hear since the engine might start seeing a contribution or two from their community.
There much more things where MODO excels Blender, not only UV. Creating game assets alone is class better than in any other app out there. There is no app where you can basically preview your assets as it will look like in game engine. Yeah PBR will come to the Blender but there are much more than just viewport in that process.
I work daily both on MODO and Blender, as a matter a fact more in Blender than in MODO, and there are pros and cons on both sides. I wrote that list few times already.
My work is not related to game or game asset, so if you said Modo is a valid software for you work, I can only accept your sentence (just for curiosity, can you post the link where you list modo feature indispensable for your work?
In my field, modelling for 3d printing, rendering and characters illustration, blender is one of the fast, if not the fast tool I can actually use alongside, and in some tasks better, Zbrush (modo is exactly the contrary).