weeeeeee I got some annoying background music put on my site! http://www.geocities.com/dmbadcat/ prepare to be annoyed [!] 
EDIT: and oh yes! please comment on some of the artwork in there, check out the âPicturesâ link or sorry, âreflectionsâ either which it says anyway
art good
but site needs more form
weee! thank you, I forgot to actually add the buttons⌠Iâll blend them- thanks for âinspiringâ me! 
forgot to do that
WEEEEEE! I also added an annoying visitor counter⌠wow, Iâve worked so hard on my site⌠itâs like, basic⌠wooooow
You gotta add frames to your site, so people can listen to the annoying music no matter what link they click on
lol⌠donât worry, Iâll learn how to make frames⌠I just have a couple of projects going on right now⌠thanks for the comments and suggestions (by the way, there is a way to stop my annoying music 
, but that would spoil it :Z )
no donât use frames they are being phased out.
they casue more trouble than they are worth. its better to use SSI or CSS for formating rather than frames, also the music polugin was not installed on my computer as i refuse to pollute my computer with CRAP.
take out the music!!!
also design your site on paper before writing the code for it.
make it nice and solid looking/feeling.
take out the counter, people donât give a crap how few visitors you actually have. if you want to check how many visitors you have go to your server control panel page and have a look in the visitor logs (i can see what computers and browser versions all my visitors are using, as well as te referer to my site, and their IP addy, LOL not that i really care about any of that)
my site is here and it was all hand coded, also its only my second website EVER. my first website was similar but used frames (bad idea to use frames)
www.mud-puddle.co.nz
Alltaken
And why do you think that?
yeah, he has some very good points there.
i also hand coded my site, and i used frames, and i deeply regret that now. I think that i will start again. As for the counter, it does not bother me that much, but the music does, please take it out.
Also, try to make it a bit easier to navigate by adding seperate sections (tables are very usefull for this).
Why should you not use frames? read about it here:
d52477001
Some of that information can be valid today but hey most of it was valid in 1996, itâs a bit old, no!?
Some of that information can be valid today but hey most of it was valid in 1996, itâs a bit old, no!?[/quote]
actually MOST of those reasons are still valid.
have you tried using a framed website on an 800x600 screen where you canât press half the menu buttons because they are in a NON-SCROLLING frame.
search engines really suck with the frame issue.
you canât copy the URL and then e-mail it to a friend.
and disabiled people cannot navigate thenm easily.
source code cannot be read unless using Mozilla. etcâŚ
its just a hassle trying to use a framed site especially with bookmarks which NEVER work
and please could someone name a single reason why a frame is better than any other method.
i wanted to make my current site using frames but realised it could all be done without frames and done better with less hassle without frames also.
Alltaken
Iâve seen it and I think such sites should be re-coded.
Yes, but that depends on what you want the search engines to find.
If you right-click on a link and the displayed menu gives you option to open that link in a new window, you can e-mail THAT page to a friend. Sure itâs possible. Coming back into the frame site can be a hastle if the coder havenât thought of this entry way.
Disabled in what way?
Not true, there is always a way. 
See âe-mailâ! above for possible way. But maybe I donât want a particular page to be bookmark âenabledâ so to speak.
To store information/data on the client without useing cookies. A sort of âclient memoryâ, if you will!? To give the user the impression of fast browsing.
A more generic reason could be if the menu buttons is large images that needs to load over and over and over :/.
Well thatâs great, you have the freedom to choose whichever way you want.
alltaken i agree with you but on my website that iâm currently making(check out the website thread) i have used frames cause i dont know what else can give the same effect.
oh and you can read the source code for frames you just have to rightclick then view source on ie 6 at least.
Iâve seen it and I think such sites should be re-coded.
Yes, but that depends on what you want the search engines to find.
If you right-click on a link and the displayed menu gives you option to open that link in a new window, you can e-mail THAT page to a friend. Sure itâs possible. Coming back into the frame site can be a hastle if the coder havenât thought of this entry way.
Disabled in what way?
Not true, there is always a way.
See âe-mailâ! above for possible way. But maybe I donât want a particular page to be bookmark âenabledâ so to speak.
To store information/data on the client without useing cookies. A sort of âclient memoryâ, if you will!? To give the user the impression of fast browsing.
A more generic reason could be if the menu buttons is large images that needs to load over and over and over :/.
Well thatâs great, you have the freedom to choose whichever way you want. :D[/quote]
ok as a âcomputer userâ yes i can do all this.
but think about all the dumbass people that donât know how to get around bugs like this.
if you want to make a site for the majority of users you need to suport the average person.
and as for the bookmarks thing or e-mailing a link. are you an idiot when youa re arguing that stuff.
geeze i think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. you have absolutly zero reason/knowledge behind your argument.
i ahev done HUGE HUGE amounts of research into this as i haev created a business website for my company.
its pointless blaming the issue on a USER like you seem to be doing.
remember when you said sites that a menu that canât be clicked because of the screensize.
well you said to âre-codeâ it. which to me says that its an issue the webmaster should need to deal with rather than the user.
but the webmaster could claim that if you look in the source you will find the links to the sites so why should he need to do anything to fix it or make it easy!!!
basicly your entire argument makes me think you are an idiot (iâm not trying to flame you, but honestly its stupid)
there are GOOD web designers who make everything as easy for the user as possible, and there are CRAP web designers that make things that suck.
which do you want to be.
i want to be a good web deisgner, hence i tested my site on about 10 differnt browsers over many OSâs
currently my site doesnât work correctly on.
Mozilla (linux only, as the Win version of mozilla displays it fine)
and IE5 (On mac OsX, it works fine on IE under windows)
every other browser seems to work fine. you know its not the fault of people using IE on a Mac or Mozilla on Linux. its MY FAULT as the web designer.
so by promoting CRAP websites as you are you are being a poor designer.
donât ever give the line âthere is always a wayâ. instead give the line âhow do i make things betterâ
you might learn somthing new if you puch for perfection.
Alltaken
I see itâs very difficult to have a discussion with you, as soon as someone doesnât agree with you, or you donât understand, they are an idiot!? :<
Thanks alot dude, I was just giving technical ways to do something.
holy **! didnât notice my site raised so much arguement⌠but whatever alltaken said in that last part (I didnât read it) I agree with him⌠I guess Iâll look up tables⌠and such- does anybody have a good example site? (alltakenâs is good, but a dif site too?) anyway, thanks for the comments⌠Iâll see what I can do when I get some time
A lot of this will echo [email protected], but who cares?
My site has frames, so a lot of this is from the coderâs point of view, and some is specific to my site.
My screen cannot go above 800x600 (its an old laptop) and I have a rather tall toolbar (downloaded google and yahoo toolbars) and a relatively tall taskbar and all the buttons fit. If they donât I rearrange the site a bit so they do.
Google works fine, and for others, I have links to each of my pages in the <NOFRAMES> for the robot to follow
right-click -> copy shortcut (or copy link target in netscape)
I agree this is a problem, but is also a problem with any other fancy graphic-intensive site.
right-click in frame -> view source
In IE the URL of each frame is saved in the bookmark along with the URL of the frameset. Or you can use right click -> add to favorites to bookmark just one page.
It provides an absolute split over the entire window, wereas the IFRAME is an internal frame, suitable for a banner or the like. a frameset results in two frames side by side (or one above the other) but an IFRAME has a definate âinnerâ and âouterâ.
It all depends on what you want for your design.
Good for you. Your design happened to be like that. Mine wasnât. Frames seemed to make much more sense for my design.
and think of all the dumbass people who donât know what an email is, or what you do to those blue underlined things to chenge the page. Just because some people canât understand it doesnât mean itâs inherantly evil.
âIf every fool can use it, then only a fool will use itâ
and the average person nowdays knows their way around a simple frameset (menu bar and main panel layout)
even when both problems are so easily fixed with one (right) click of the mouse?
and yet most of his points were valid, yes?
I think youâre just arguing because youâre afraid youâre wrong
Yes, weâve seen it. Very pretty. Look at mine. Nothing fancy, but uses frames and yet works.
he wasnât blaming, but suggesting.
Exactly. All blame for that goes to the coder for being so insensitive to the low-end of the resolution market. But your site suffers from this too. It has a dreaded horizontal scrollbar when viewed on an 800x600 display.
and then that webmaster would be crap at design. If you canât find your way around it needs work. But frames donât necessarily make it hard to find your way around
And I think youâre a gross ignoramus who doesnât know anything about anything - no offence (j/k)
and, IMHO, frames make it easier for the user when used properly, say with a menu bar at the side, the user is always one click away from a particular page, and that one click never moves - itâs always there.
now comes the challenge - making it work on those browsers.
Also, it doesnât look quite right on a text based browser, mainly because in the gallery section all the ALT= text for the images in gallery (the only page I looked at) all say âOriginal imageâ and it says â3D designâ under the web design image. That shouldnât be too hard to fix though.
and so he would be if he actually did. but he didnât so he isnât. Does that make any sense?
How about âThere is always a way to make it better. Now to find itâ
Hey, with a little bit more modesty, Iâd be perfect.
:o :o Wow, thatâs a long post :o :o
ok guys⌠Iâm experimenting with cascading style sheets right now⌠so if you see something wierd, donât complain yet
What?!?!? You canât do that! Thatâs the best music Iâve heard in ages!
You gotta keep the music, the annoying music makes 'em leave, but then they come back to see how it endsâŚ
yâsee thatâs the funny thing⌠<bgmusic src=âblahblahblahâ LOOP=INFINITE>