NaN & Blender's future still uncertain


(ton) #1

Bankruptcies always cause victims, and in NaN’s case there was no exception. People lost jobs, the users on-going support, investors their money.
But sometimes something new arises, and that’s what several people have been working on the past months. I’ve posted about this a few times, and although I couldn’t tell much, there was a good hope we could secure a new future for Blender and parts of NaN’s business.
Plans for that, including a limited open source for Blender, now have been officially rejected by one of the shareholders, who owns sufficient votes to block important decisions.

As a result, the temporal stasis we created - with still operating a small office in Amsterdam, and a limited website - now all have been definitely closed.

This new situation is too fresh to fully grasp legally or - for me - to have a definite opinion about. I was prepared to step aside, and let other enthousiast people manage the inheritance. Now it looks like this might take quite a longer time before a solution arises.

I’m establishing a small office at home now, within the next days you will hear more from me.

Take care,

-Ton-


(stephen2002) #2

that is too bad…not a good thing when a program with such promise goes under and can not even be made open source. There are quite a few people here that would jump on the opportunity to work with the source of Blender.

Hope everything goes well for you.


(gargola) #3

i want to know the name of that pig,so if he got some kind of bussisness we can all send him to hell and don’t buy anything from him or his company…then bankrupcy for him!! :x


(Green) #4

i want to know the name of that pig,so if he got some kind of bussisness we can all send him to hell and don’t buy anything from him or his company…then bankrupcy for him!! :x[/quote]

NetVentures…
I doubt you were buying anything from the companies they invested in anyways… So just continue with whatever you were doing.


(sten) #5

Hey Ton !

I hope it will work out for you as soon as possible…

You have my support to do it what ever you decide !!


(gargola) #6

what’s that supposed to mean?


(SKPjason) #7

Thanks for the info Ton. Best wishes, and I really appreciate you keeping us “in the loop”.

Jason Saville


(system) #8

As always Ton has an interesting view on the world.
And looking at things in a different perspective made Blender possible in
the first place, specially in a world where 3d used to cost $40.000,=

But in this post something weird is going on in my opinion, not only is
the pain of people who are a victim of NaN management (don’t forget,
Ton owns 10% of NaN and was member of the management board)
reduced to moaning, it is full of moaning itself, something I’m not used
to see Ton do.

The tear jerking and little kid ground pounding is extra ordinary big.

>But sometimes something new arises, and that’s what several people
>have been working on the past months. I’ve posted about this a few
>times, and although I couldn’t tell much, there was a good hope we
>could secure a new future for Blender and parts of NaN’s business.
>Plans for that, including a limited open source for Blender, now have
>been officially rejected by one of the shareholders, who owns sufficient
>votes to block important decisions.

Are you serious Ton? You now feel a bit like I did? When I put 12 months of
hard work into a company that then had enough power to get me unemployed and
steal my pension and savings money? And send friends I made against there
will back to their country?

The scary part is, people do react to these posts in a very aggressive way as
if Ton is a deciple of the truth… Before you start demonizing the investor
you might want to take a look at other sides of this case first.

>i want to know the name of that pig, so if he got some kind of bussisness we
>can all send him to hell and don’t buy anything from him or his company…
>then bankrupcy for him!!

I don’t think you got the point gargola: This guy you want to boycott already had
a bankrupt company partly thanks to Ton’s management skills.

The bottom line is Ton:
“You don’t own Blender, so you don’t get to say what happens to it.”
Even if doing nothing with it is more ‘stupid’ then Open Source it, it’s not
up to you.
I know, leaving it alone is probably impossible for you to do. But please,
don’t hurt yourself with this attachment. You still have enough time to make new
‘menen’ if this one turns out to die.

-Joeri

ps.
Knowing Ton a bit I hope I stirred him up enough to make something
interesting happen, so that my 8 years in Blender does not end up as a
total waste of time. With a little luck (hmmm okay with a lot of luck) we
can set back time with 3 years, and cut out the E & G cancer as well as
the I,M,G & R tumor. But I fear for it’s life very much…

Strangely enough one of the goals of Not a Number was achieved,
democratizing 3d software came a long way, only not by Ton. With a MayaLE
and a $1999,= Maya Complete anyone can get his hand on a good 3d package.
This makes the need for a Open Source inferior 3d package not very
interesting to much new and old 3d image/movie creators.


(IamInnocent) #9

If that investor can block anything, can it forbid us to use Blender by revoking our licence ?


(VelikM) #10

Whats the big f… flap? Ton had more information about whats happening with Blender/NaN, or in this case whats not happening or not going to happen.
BigWhale: When I read your post I have to wonder where the source of the bitterness is that makes you want to gloat about Ton’s current situation

The tear jerking and little kid ground pounding is extra ordinary big.

The bottom line is Ton:
“You don’t own Blender, so you don’t get to say what happens to it.”
Even if doing nothing with it is more ‘stupid’ then Open Source it, it’s not
up to you.
I know, leaving it alone is probably impossible for you to do. But please,
don’t hurt yourself with this attachment. You still have enough time to make new
‘menen’ if this one turns out to die.

Whats this have to do with Ton?

Are you serious Ton? You now feel a bit like I did? When I put 12 months of
hard work into a company that then had enough power to get me unemployed and
steal my pension and savings money? And send friends I made against there
will back to their country?

No Ton might not be omnipotent, nor omniscience either, but so what? The man worked his best to get 3D out to anyone that was interested in it or wanted to try it. The fact is NaN ran the same course as 95% of the rest of the small business’s/companys out there, closed the doors in 3-5 years. Thats a fact of life for small business’s.

P.S. Ton thanks for the update, even if it’s rather depressing :frowning:
IamInnocent

If that investor can block anything, can it forbid us to use Blender by revoking our licence ?

Bloody f… likely. What grounds would the invester have to revoke licenses? I think he would have to file suit in every country that the licenses have been sold in.


(Timothy) #11

No,

afaik any license shippsed with a software program is the one which counts. Even if the company decides to change it.


(gargola) #12

anybody that knows me here in the forum knows that i’m not that rude,but man this is so depressing!we can’t help to get a little angry. :frowning:


(macke) #13

So what? Take a look at the wide perspective, blender isn’t going anywhere as stated, why try to inflict false hope and engage the community in a fight against the owners of blender? If the owners wants to leave blender in the freezer, and not release it, then let them do so. Its not up to Ton, nor you or the rest of the community to decide.

Is that so? Neato! Most businesses in this country are small businesses, and most live longer than that! Do you live in the US? If so, I can understand that statement, but don’t try and pull that statement all over the world.

I wonder if he’d have done it if Erwin hadn’t posted.

Well, since there is a general license for creator, the owner could make a license forbidding everyone to use that, I suppose. But for publisher I think that is not the case as there was a license shipped with that.


(IamInnocent) #14

No,

afaik any license shippsed with a software program is the one which counts. Even if the company decides to change it.[/quote]

They don’t have to change anything :

here’s from Copyright.txt
" 1. Grant of License

Subject to the provisions of this License Agreement, NaN grants You a
limited, non-exclusive, personal, non-sublicenseable,
non-transferable, revocable license to use the Software at any
computer You own or use.
"
Does ‘revocable’ still means that can be revoked ?


(IamInnocent) #15

The grounds are a provision in the licence agreement. See answer to Timothy.
Stopping the development would shake the fundations of the Community quite seriously already. For local communities I guess that a few lawyers letters to the free servers that host them would be more than enough. Wonder if they’d really have to be from licence (by NaN ?) lawyers. (j/k)


(dotblend) #16

lets keep our heads up

sad to hear this Ton…

It’s a sad thing losing a job…(company)
I know, a recently had the same thing…
same situation… it s*cks!

and youri, how’s your renderdeamon?


(xype) #17

Where does Joeris biterness come from? You quoted his motives for bitterness, for christs sake.

When NaN started out (with GameBlender) it was not a small business. I am not sure, but I think NaN had more employees than NewTek has people working on LightWave. And a huge budget.

First it’s their software and they can do what they want - it’s not like many people were paying for Blender or it’s support in first place. Secondly noone can control whether you have Blender installed and work with it. And third, I doubt they care enough, they lost lots of money, I doubt they want to spend even more “hunting” Blender users.


(dmoc) #18

Just a quite note to say don’t be defeatist and don’t underestimate the Blender communities influence. If NetVenture have lost a lot of money then time will only make that worse, maybe more amenable to suggestions, of all sorts. As far as revoking licences go, what would be the point? The only realistic situation where that would happen is a conflict of interest.


(xype) #19

The “community” stopped to matter long time ago.


(VelikM) #20

Macke wrote:

Is that so? Neato! Most businesses in this country are small businesses, and most live longer than that! Do you live in the US? If so, I can understand that statement, but don’t try and pull that statement all over the world.

Ok Macke, fetch me up. What is the average life of a small business in your country (new startup’s that is, since some countrys have pubs that are older than the US)? Most business’s in the US are small business’s too, the most common cause of failure is under capitalism of the startup.
Macke wrote:

So what? Take a look at the wide perspective, blender isn’t going anywhere as stated, why try to inflict false hope and engage the community in a fight against the owners of blender? If the owners wants to leave blender in the freezer, and not release it, then let them do so. Its not up to Ton, nor you or the rest of the community to decide.

False hope? All I read was it’s dead and in the hands of the stock holders. It seems that at least one owner wants to do just that (leaving it in the freezer that is). Ton’s message sounded to me like he was saying it’s not up to him anymore. And I don’t see any where that I wrote that it was up to me or anyone in the community to deside. So where exactly are you going with this, besides just ranting that is. 8) Which is ok a good rant now and then is theraputic.