i dont even blend anymore so who cares but, everyone worth reading their posts on this forum will probably agree there should be another forum on elysiun:
Newbie game-engine question forum.
so when i occassionally check back at what’s going on the world of blender these days i don’t have to trapes through “how do i make a game” and “Why don’t textures work in game” or “How do you make FPS movement” or “blah bloody blah.”
this can address basic problems leaving this forum to deal with tech dev of the game engine and progress/showcasing of game projects.
I suggested making a FAQ page a while back. I set one up on my site at http://outofthehat.freespaces.com/tutorials/gefaq/index.htm but no one uses it. Its interactive so people can ask a question that has not already been asked and I could answer it. The only questions there right now are the ones I’ve put in myself. There was supposed to be a game engine wiki but I’m not sure whats going on there. I suppose if I had more publicity for my FAQ it might cut down on the number of newbie questions asked here.
I can understand your frustration, but thats pretty much how the whole forum scene functions. When you can have anyone post anything, and then leave it open for anyone to respond with many different versions of the “answer” (and not to mention their own individual opinions about the matter), results will ussualy not be that organized. Because of this it is only natural that people will ask, and re-ask the same questions over and over.
MagicMan:
I took a gander at your interactive FAQ and I think its a great idea, but I think that something like that would be better implemented here on elysiun, and also not restricted to “newbie” questions. I think that the community could benifit from a general “Q and A” repository.
The idea is:
When someone asks a question on the forums and then eventually gets an answer, he/she will then submit the initial question, and a complete answer to that question, to the “Q and A” repository. Then all you have to do is just implement a decent search function for the repository, and have users resolve weather or not their question has already been answered. I believe that this would reduce the annoyances of people asking the same questions over and over again.
What do you guys think?
PS: I am aware of the current search option for the forums, but it does not function all that well. Ussualy you would have to read through a bunch of posts just to get to a part of the final answer, or at times you would do all the reading and simply realize that no one actually answered the question in the first place. It’s something like trying to find a needle in a tornado. At least that’s what I think.
I was thinking some Q and A could be implemented here too but since it hasn’t I have my little FAQ at my site. Its true an elYsiun one would get more peoples posts in it. I also agree that the search function isnt all that great but its propably because of the limitations of PHP that it does that.
I personally don’t want any more forums to have to click through. It’s easier to read one forum and pick subjects I’m interested in. It’s something like the focus critique forum which I don’t bother reading. To me, there isn’t nearly enough questions on this forum for that type of complaint. Maybe we should have a forum called “know it all.”
Elysiun is one of the best forums on the internet, and is -the- best forum I have the pleasure to participate in. I’m involved in a GE project full time right now, and this forum has given me a huge amount of help.
I think part of the problem is that sometimes noobs post a question before searching to see if it’s been posted before. I know I’ve made that mistake a few times, but have tried to get into the habit of searching before posting. The search function in this forum is better than most, so there really isn’t any excuse not to use it.
I’m not in favor of another forum either, I don’t think there are that many repetitive posts to pose a real problem. What is surprising, and speaks volumes of the quality of folks here, is that even the dumbest/most repetitive post always get a helpful reply. You’re unlikely to find that kind of generousity and patience anywhere else.
Actually all this is redundant. If used correctly the search function on elysiun is really good. You just gotta know how to search. Let’s face it, most people are lazy and want a specific answer to their question without having to search.
There was a major repository for questions and answers pertaining to blender before (forgot where and what it was called). It didn’t work too well cause it was pretty messy. A general FAQ on elysiun would be great, answering a lot of the newbie questions. Actually a lot of this can be avoided if everyone who starts out puts in some intial work to try and learn it without diving head in.
Go through blender interface tutorials (learn all the basics: interface, modeling, armatures, ipos, etc)
Go through blender GE tutorials after reading the GameKit reference (and maybe going through the Blender gamekit, yes it’s old but those things still apply)
Learn python (then learn how it applies to GE)
After all that and having trained yourself to think logically, you’d have problems, but harder ones that can be solved in time
If everyone followed that there’ll be way less questions.
i dont even blend anymore so who cares but, everyone worth reading their posts on this forum will probably agree there should be another forum on elysiun:
Ahh where’d you go or why’d you leave? Great things are happening for the GE.
At my site liveswifers, I have just setup a tutorials section for Liveswif. Its not much yet, but everytime a person asks a question and I can answer it in tutorial form I do that. I also make sure that all the text is posted in the forum so that an outside link is not relied upon.
This takes alot of work though, and now that Blender is so far along it would be very difficult.
Perhaps if they had someone willing to just make tutorials all day for free? %|
The reason people post their questions before searching for them is because they dont feel like reading through 20 or so threads to find the answer. I don’t know what goldentaiji means by using the search function “correctly”, but it takes quite some time to “skim” throught the results in order to find the answer (if one even pops up in the results), but then again maybe he knows something about using the search engine that I don’t (I just ussually type in the keyword and pray for the right thread to pop up, which does not happen that often). Either way, it turns out that its much less trouble to just post the question.
Abracsis:
I completely agree. I still think that a “Q & A” repository is a better way to go, but your idea about splitting up the game engine forum into corresponding sections sounds more likely, and would definitelly get things more organized.
(I just ussually type in the keyword and pray for the right thread to pop up, which does not happen that often)
Maybe you know this already, but this helps me:
Let’s say I want to find out if there’s a python script for light mapping. I go to the “Search” function, enter “light map python” in the field, check off “search for all terms”, and then select the “Blender Python and Plugins” forum. The key, I’ve found, is using that “search for all terms” option. That usually helps limit my search pretty well. The only time it doesn’t help is if the thread is 20 pages long or the subject line is something like “How do I do this?” rather than “Light Maps in Blender?”.
%| Ok, I’m a little bias here. Lol, I’ve been here for awhile and almost see every thread that passes by. Hehe, so I more or less have a slight memory of a thread or the info in it, so if I ever did need to search I would know what I was looking for.
But honestly though, if everyone followed those steps I outlined there, there wouldn’t be as much simple problems.
I agree, for example, I noticed that a certain question is often asked, followed by a same answer with this referential blend file:
fps_controls.blend
As a nb, I use the following terms for google.
blender game engine [search terms]
or
[search terms] filetype:blend
I also use the search feature of this forum, which I often find useful.
I make notes on my findings after searches. See here.
I also noticed in this tread as well as previous threads that we might need a certain kind of information depositry or FAQ.
I see two problems on information depositry or anything similar. 1) listed documents will easily be too complicated for users to find relevant information as it accumulates. 2) Besides, given the problem #1 solved, even if one can find a certain information, it does not always mean that he or she can apply the piece of information to what he or she is trying to achieve.
I understand that it would be too easy to keep on complaininig without actions. I have been looking for a good free PHP space somewhere so that a GE information deppositry can be built.
P.S: creating another forum (for segregation) may not be the ultimate solution to the problem, as it may not facilitate nb to develop a problem solving skill and practice.
1)Not if a decent keyword search function is implemented, and also keep in mind that we are talking about searching “within” the Q and A repository (meaning no useless chit-chat/posts, just the question and the answer), making the whole thing quite organized and easy to manuver.
2)That is irrelevant. We are talking about making the existing information more organized and therefore more accessible. Weather that information can help you or not, is your problem, not a database problem. (thats the point of having the repository, so that you could ask the questions that have not been answered yet, and then have that answer stored in the repository for others who might be looking for the same thing. Only this time they could find it alot faster)
No one said it was the ultimate solution, but it would definitely improve things from the current situation. Segregating the forums would organize things quite a bit, since you can have a category for Q&A,Python and finished works, making things easier to find. As for developing your problem solving skills; you can do that on your own time. I for one like my database to be as fast and as efficient as possible, so that I can get the answers that im looking for ASAP and continue on to implement them in my project.
Would it be possible to, instead of having seperate forums, have a system of “sub-forums”? You’d go the the GE forum and up would pop “categories” to be browsed seperately.
Even better, every topic could be put into the categories and users can select what they want to see: for example, view all Python scripts and GE examples but not display Q&As. (I know it’s probably not possible, but I’ll throw it out there anyway.)
Sorry for confusing database problems with other problems. But I wanted to stress that encouraging users for self help would be as important as having a well categorized and organized database.
Here is a quick counting of current posts by categories:
Asking for help about self project: 8
Questions about performance: 4
NBish questions: 3
Looking for Volunteers: 3
Questions about functionality of Blender GE: 2
Events and notices: 2
About newly implemented features: 2
Progress report of self project: 2
Poll: 2
Tutorial: 2
Asking for help about self project [solved]: 1
Useful tips and blend scrips: 1
Proposal: 1
Games created with GE: 1
Link collections: 1
(As of Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:26 am)
My categorization may not be fair and there should be more samples to be counted and categorized, but it should give some ideas.
Yes, it is definitely as important as having a well organized and categorized database. I agree with you on that statement.
I appreciate your effort in categorizing the current situation, but I think that you over-categorized.
All you really need is 5 categories:
1- Q & A (including all questions noobish or not)
2- Finished works (the category for updates is not necessary, because people can just post them here, where their finished work was already posted)
3- Looking for volunteers
4- BGE Python (this one is only because there is so little material on Python in relation to the GE.)
5- Miscalaneous (for something that wouldn’t fit well into any of the above categories)
It is my opinion that this setup of GE “subforums” (Toomai mentioned subforums, and I agree with him that its the best way to go), would definitelly organize things.
PS: I don’t know how you guys are doing with the current search function, but I’m starting to believe that there might be something wrong with the php code. I type in “python” then select the Blender Game engine forum category, and what I get back is results where python isn’t a keyword in any of the topics that come up. Also, for the first results page, if you click on a topic and then click back, you get an error message. Does anyone know why this is so?
The majority of users “do not” know how to use those docs. It would be nice if you could write a tutorial on that subject, so that we can all understand the documentation. How exactly do you use it?
The point is: game logic documentation by itself is cryptic to the average user. There are no examples of actual use, just a list. People just don’t know where to start.
If you look at it from that perspective, you’ll see im not wrong in saying that there is very little material on python, in relation to the game engine.
how the search engine of the forum is in question here i have a good answer, use google instead to search files at elysiun, go to advanced search fill in the right domain name, click on the 100 results give him your keywords and voila there are what you need, this could be painfull if you use internet explorer 6 it dont support tabs browsing
If everyone followed that there’ll be way less questions.