First we blend, then refine, distil & finally let it age.
So for the compositing node icon we should use a wine barrel.
or a cocktail, a martini glass pizza could also do fine
How about this for the save icon
Just put a disclaimer on the startup screen stating that you have to pronounce everything as if you were Sean Connery.
When we think outside the box with all the icons maybe we should come up with new names for everything as well. Save could be called shave. Why? just because we can.
I have only seen the concept of auto-save in this thread. Is that an actual idea that is being considered?
I really don’t like that thought, I want control over my saves thank you.
And the whole argument over icons…if you don’t like the default roll your own. I am quite happy with my SD card for save and a skull for quit.
Maybe Blender logo for save?
whats wrong in save ‘Floppy’ icon. why are you ignoring what most of the people wants. it’ll be good to the new users too.
It’s easy to go with the floppy because that’s what other software does, and I think that is a valid point. That feedback hasn’t been ignored; the icon was updated to be a floppy for now, and if something better comes along then it will be updated again. But it’s silly to justify the continued use of the floppy icon just because “it’s always been done that way”.
Maybe we won’t find a better icon over the course of this thread, but we should keep our minds open to new ideas. The floppy is a piece of hardware that hasn’t been used since the turn of the century. Perhaps it is still a relevant icon, but let’s keep exploring before we try to set it in stone.
first up good work on the new icons.
I think we have three groups of people who have conflicting needs/wants here.
Professional users, and by this I mean people who typically use blender many hours a day, and by and large know what they are doing. These people typically want the interface to be out of the way except when they need it, don’t want icons to show up in the the periphery as this interferes with evaluating your artwork but be easy to read when you have your focus on them. Contrast should be just enough to visually be able to differentiate between icons but not enough that it competes with the artwork. Overall color should be as neutral as possible. The ideal interface tends to be grey on grey, usually dark and uses colour as sparingly as possible.
People who are not able to differentiate easily between shapes for either cognitive or visual impairment reasons. These people seem to use colour as landmarks for finding their way around the interface and as ways to tell icons apart within a reasonable time-frame.
people who primarily react emotionally to the colour of the interface, this group wants the interface to feel inviting and inspire them to spend more time using the program.
am I leaving anybody out?
 of course I am…
4) Developers / Addon Devolopers - these people want it to be relatively easy to make Icons that fit with the general feel of blender. For the core team this is less of an issue because presumably there is somebody available with the artistic skills however it is never wise for that person to be irreplaceable. [/edit]
Design geeks who like design for its own sake. Typography is typically divided, either you like or hate Helvetica for example. I like the flat design, but would like to see some depth using subtle hints like drop shadows, transparency or gradients. I would like to see icons with subtle tints (say 90% elements) and a single themable colour element for bling, say Blender orange (does it have an assigned Pantone colour?). Some way to add extra visual information to the icons, animated icon to show a background process underway, a green drop shadow when complete, red when failed, an additional tick or cross overlay top right corner to show state using same icon for example and pretty pie menus. I will never be able to afford or justify owning a McLaren, but damn they look good…
Ironically, I use OpenSCAD to procedurally generate models, use Blender to generate 2D sprite sheets and import into Godot. Hopefully, as my programming skills improve, I’ll be able to do this without leaving Godot, so Blender’s UI is of no consequence to me and automation is key to speeding up my production process.
are you saying that this is your perspective? I have just read through this nearly 3000 post thread and I don’t see a lot of design for the sake of design discussion going on. I also want to talk more about where the design impacts people in practical ways.
Just idle chit chat… Truthfully, very few of the posts here will have any impact on the final design, with the exception of the few that resonate with @jendrzych, since he is the one designing the iconset for 2.8, based on what he likes. So, yes, design for design’s sake. The developers could have added the necessary icons to the old set and left it at that. It would have made little real difference other than based on looks. That said, I rather like his design aesthetics…
After reading the thread (as somebody who has some professional experience building software and designing Icons) I don’t really think that what you described is what is going on.
I think that the new set is going to cater to groups 1 and 4 more than the old set. Some sort of acceptable compromise is going to have to be made for group 2 @jendrzych has said so much multiple times already but not before the icon set works as well as it can as a monochrome set (imagine somebody with colour blindness wants to use blender).
Ideally a design will be found which is not too distracting for group 1 and allows group 2 to navigate reasonably easily.
I have no idea what to do about group 3.
It’s how you define “better” that seems to be the sticking point.
If we ignore the link to outdated hardware - just what is it about the floppy save icon that is so in need of a change?
It’s clear, it fits easily within the requisite space, it’s well understood within computer user circles and is ubiquitous.
If you change the save icon you will necessarily diminish one or more of these points, without improving to any of them.
Except perhaps the posts justifying the change just “because we can”…to me that sounds like design for design’s sake since no other clear benefit for the change was offered.
We are already at the point where many people using computers today have no idea what a floppy disk actually is. And it’s already been addressed in this thread that the idea of saving a file locally isn’t necessarily the go-to method of saving anymore. I define “better” as a something more representative and longer lasting than an already out-of-date piece of hardware.
Do we have to change it? Perhaps not, it’s probably not an issue to keep using the floppy icon for the foreseeable future, and I’m not trying to find a problem where there is none. However, I think it’s healthy to have a discussion about it. Even Apple eventually changed the itunes logo so that it doesn’t include a picture of a CD anymore.
You make a strong point about the ubiquitousness of the icon. I really like this idea for the icon because it has the same recognizable silhouette as the floppy, but it’s not tied to the outdated hardware.
I have no problem believing that this is how you perceived those messages, I am not convinced that this is what the writer of the message was trying to communicate.
From my point of view there are good solid reasons for each of the design decisions that has little to do with “just because we can”.
Now I expect that in a community like blender there are a lot more people in group 1 than groups 2 and 3 combined and an even larger group of people who are not in any of these groups. This reflects in the majority of people reacting favorably to the changes with a few people really strongly opposed. that’s not to say that what groups 2 and 3 are saying is not important its just that if you are going to have a productive conversation about this it really helps to understand the tradeoffs being made and dare I say it try to avoid hyperbole.
@jendrzych have you looked at breeze icon set for KDE it was created with really similar design goals in mind and it is a large icon set, it could be ideas when you get stuck. There is also a icon theme called Noir for a KDE theme called Bespin that is a little hard to track down that has some really interesting ideas.
Breeze is somewhat interesting in the way that the icons are rendered. The theme uses SVG directly and the SVG files have embedded style sheets that allow the files to be rasterised to match the current theme.
Long term, with blender pushing it’s 2d content creatpion capabilities it might be worth integrating stronger svg capabilities into blender anyways.
Does anybody know how the current svg importer works?
Why does it matter how the icon was originally derived. Today, most people recognise that shape as meaning “save”.
When was the last time you used a paint bucket, or a roll of physical film stock with your computer - yet nobody seems to be complaining about using those to represent area fill or movie sequence?
The paint bucket icon is particularly weird because I have never actually poured paint out of a bucket like that in order to fill an area even in real life. The only possible scenario where that would even work is floor paint and even then you’d still have to roll it. Not only does the icon not really represent what you are doing on the computer, it doesn’t even represent a real life action.
How many people still use an hour glass - yet that icon is ubiquitous with “busy” and I haven’t seen anyone suggest it should be changed because hour glasses are obsolete tech.
Icons are simple shapes used to represent a concept. There is no reason they have to be an up to date representation of an object or action - as long as the meaning is understood.