New proposal from William; Industry standard naming conventions

(• I don't speak English "by default", so... 😉) #82

Yeah, this makes no sense to me. The way I see it, a hotkey doesn’t necessarily needs to be a letter of the function you’re calling. The move tool can happily continue having the g key as a hotkey. But hey, I’m gonna switch to the industry standard keymap once iit’s released anyways, so…

(English is not my native language) #83

Not only it is not necessary, it is impossible because of the finite amount of keys on a keyboard. But as far as this is possible, it helps a lot for Blender users that do not come from using standard programs. The fact is that “Grab” and “G” is not an isolated thing, it is a set of three things: Transforms. We had a “logical” relationship for transforms and shortcuts with the first letter for Grab - Scale - Rotate. Now it seems to be arbitrary, that logical relation has been broken, there is no logic anymore.
I understand that to those who choose industry standard shorcuts it does not matter, they will still have a “logical” relationship for transforms on the keyboard (three continuous keys in a row, as I understand)

I really do not understand what would be the problem of adopting “Grab / Move” as in 2.79.

(burnin) #84

Personally i would expect from outsiders some respect to get to know blender first, learn & adapt to it. Not the other way around + forcing already skilled users to accept their self-centered opinions.

Because there is really no standard in the industry per se (ISO XYZ or WTF). It is simply a habit, tradition and dogma.

Tho few changes were on the spot, but it’s getting ridiculous as hunting flies.

(Richard Culver) #85

Well the gag of gags is in reality new users do respect Blender. But because a minority of people try to paint another picture with unsubstantiated heresay, there is another perception that this not the case. Percentage wise new artists approach Blender just as anything else. If they are proffesional they take it in stride. If they are amateur, they complain, and so it goes as they do with everything in life.

(Cessen) #86

Oh, interesting. I didn’t realize the 2.8 keymap changes were trying to stay conservative. That totally makes sense, then, to keep the existing g/r/s. Though it would be nice to work on a more radical improved keymap at some point, IMO, that isn’t quite so strictly beholden to either the previous Blender or to Max/Maya. But that is definitely a large undertaking, as I discovered quite a few years ago when I tried to take that on. :slight_smile:

Yeah, even if the goal is to be conservative with the new keymap, tab edit-toggle just doesn’t fit Blender’s functionality anymore.

(the_motionblur) #87

Agree. That’s why it makes more sense to create a keyboard layout that is faster than the current one. Not for the sake of any semantics or mnemonics but for the sake of speeding up out of the box workflow.
The idea of having the keys farther away from basic hand gesture reach for how frequently they are used makes most sense logically. If this so happens to also collide with a beginning letter for what it does - good. :wink:

Stupid idea - I wonder now that we have Blender Open Data could Blender maybe enabled to collect anonymous usage statistics about tools and usage frequencies as an opt-in? That way the most used tools can be tailored to a good start keyboardlayout.

(Grzesiek) #88

I like that idea of anonymous usage statistics with opt-in only option, but the issue is for the most part it will track the standard key layout.

This is just my opinon but I have the feeling that most users dont’ alter the layout from default, as such unsure of the value it will actually bring.

(the_motionblur) #89

This is just a hypothetical idea anyways but I would have thought to track which tools are actually used in which frequency so that a layout can be tailored to making the most common tools closest to the keys where you don’t need to lift the hand.

A problem would be a left-handed keyboard layout then, though. I am sure not everybody keeps their hand on the left Shift-Ctrl-Alt keys all the time.

(Grzesiek) #90

I also wonder how to track macros.

I have a programamble keyboard and mouse so I have F12 right under my thumb as such it won’t really provide value. Though I do expect I’m in the minority on this.

A better way would be to make some Polls to see if people use default layout or their own, if they use macros or actual keypresses.

If anyone is using pie menues… etc etc… Still would the core blender team even use this data… probably not…

(apoclypse) #91

Yes. Blender should have fuzzy searching if it doesn’t already. Every tool should have a description and as long as that description contains some industry standard wording then I don’t really care what Blender calls their tools. All I’m looking for is an easy way to find the tools.

(apoclypse) #92

Yes please. More data is always a good thing imo.

(the_motionblur) #93

Don’t know. Deep down in this thread they surely won’t because I doubt they are reading any of this. :smiley:

Though in another thread I was made aware of
That’s a cool thing and I hope this is more beneficial for deciding on what to do next.