Nivdia is dropping support of CUDA for macOS

Highlights of CUDA 10.2 include:

  • CUDA 10.2 now ships libcu++ as a parallel standard C++ library for graphics processors.
  • CUDA Virtual Memory Management (VMM) APIs are added.
  • This is the last CUDA release supporting Apple’s macOS for developing and running applications. The next CUDA release will be completely dropping macOS support.

This from Phoronix

2 Likes

And why should they continue?

2 Likes

I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. So I will say it’s important for cycles . OpenCL is already in trouble on the mac platform and now cuda as well .

Open CL is being extended to work over Vulcan so some of the work on OpenCL could be salvaged but cuda Will not work on Vulcan so I think they will most likely have to start from scratch on macOS Metal backend for both AMD and Nividia GPU’S ?

Apple only bundle AMD cards on their machines, so Chalybeum’s comment stands.

3 Likes

If Cycles users on mac can render with Optix instead, that is not a problem.

Optix is still for the most part cuda isn’t it ?

The thing is all of this changes happening at the same time is the big problem. As I said on other platforms besides the Mac you can do some big changes to make open CL work over Vulcan and your future proof , and it will work for Windows and Linux and Android if that ever happen.

But on the Mac you have to start from scratch more or less for both AMD and Nividia on metal.
I don’t really know if you can run OpenCL over multanVK over metal?

And even if you can run OpenCL directly over metal (I think intel intend to give oneAPI a metal backend at some point) you will still have to deal with the fact that OpenCL on nividia is crippled . So best case scenario cycles on nividia cards on Mac os will have bad performance . Worst case it will take forever before it work at all on the Mac because it simply to big a project for such a small return of value

No, I’m dead serious!
In fact, why should we even care? Why should any one even buy a Mac anymore? I mean I get it, people are still under the impression that Macs are the go to tool for designers/creatives. Nope, sorry.
Ok, maybe if you rely solely on Adobe software, you can get away with a Mac.
But this is the Blender community. Imho it is waisted time and money to develop for a platform, that is doing everything to keep us out. I mean it’s a noble goal to be available for all artists on all platforms ( not Android). But look at it: deprecating tech we rely on, putting a price tag to enter software into their walled garden and then this notarizing thing. I mean it’s clear they can’t right out say they don’t want Open source, especially ones that is seriously competing with real money making software on their platform because it’d destroy their ‘hipster freshness’ image.
But now that I said it maybe Blender is just the right, and the only one that can afford it, software to stand against this. But to be blunt: I’d rather like to see no-one buying their BS anymore and force them to get down to earth. Or go out of business but that’s unlikely. To much blinded fans world wide.
Again this is only the Blender perspective. Look at these IPads, those are really cool sketching devices, bundeled with that pencil thing. Now if they would only have a price that would reflect a digital sketchpad…

Oh and to be specific to NVIDIA: It’s just the right answer to Apples decision to don’t build with their cards anymore. No new Nvidia Macs, no need for drivers. Simple as that. If Apple patches their existing NVIDIA machines dead they are officially the assholes they are already, although not seen by everybody.

14 Likes

I hate to say it, but you do have quite a few points. Apple tends to be cultish and hear me out on this one.

Apple strives to live in its own bubble, its own bubble on its terms, and that bubble is made to have a cult like following to use as an income source. If you work hardware repairs you are almost doomed to lose money if you are trying to keep yourself apple certified. You need to jump through so many hoops just to order an apple product from apple.

And official apple support for fixing your devices costs an arm and a leg for craptastic results and is so awesome that people have built youtube empires based around bitching about it.

3 Likes

Absolutely right. Didn’t even want to get started on those aspects.

1 Like

Keep in mind, when I say cultish, I do mean that I’ve seen how many checkboxes they click off on the cult checklist based on what the apple fanboys and apple itself says about itself. And yes all fandom are a little cultish but apple actively builds walls around its IP and it is very suspect when you look at how isolating being a mac user can be from other sources of service and community.

2 Likes

There’s nothing wrong with being a fan of something and be a bit too loyal sometimes. By all means people who want to use Macs for whatever reason should absolutely do so. But please don’t expect the rest of the world to buy in also.
You get what you pay for. And in this case it’s a damn high price for even more damned higher restrictions. If patronised computing is the thing one’s looking for, Apple has the best value.

I really have to quit this rant now. Cynic level is raising way beyond safety guidelines.

1 Like

Apple hasn’t shipped with an Nvidia card in years. On top of that, vendors aren’t even allowed to produce their own drivers for Macs. Who in their right mind would continue to support that?

4 Likes

Please don’t quit, it’s not cynicism if it’s 100% true. They made their bed. The writing was an the wall since 2013 when they stopped producing workstations for pro’s.
I occasionally felt bad for bashing Apple, you know, dead horse and such… i held back because i don’t want to look like a hater, but i shouldn’t care about it. Apple is as bad as Google or EA or whatever corrupt big company you want to use as an example. It’s ok to hate them.

To all the apple users: you have pretty good hardware, just a Linux or Windows on it (yes i went there).

In no way it’s my intention to flame up the discussion here.
But I think it would be very helpful if the following would be understood by everybody not using a MAC:

First of all I think Apple being ‘cultish’ ends at the edge of the Apple Campus.
I am a Mac user and most of my friend are. In my business (Advertising and Film Industry), most people have at least a MacBook. But NO ONE is celebrating Apple as a company. Almost everybody is super critical, annoyed or even disappointed by them.
Why are we still using MAC’s?
Because, in spite of all bullshit Apple does as a company, many of their products are simply very easy and nice to use. On top of that they are beautifully designed, soft- and hardware. And yes, for some people this matters. I’m also fine to pay more for a car if I really like the design - even though I could get the same specs cheaper from a different car brand.
And of top of that, many people have built their business on the MAC eco-system.

I think what causes a lot of tension between PC and MAC users, are comments like ‘You have to be an idiot to buy a MAC’, or ‘Macs are totally overpriced rubbish’ (which basically means the same). These are more or less personal attacks. I think that’s why MAC users often react very defensively.
I never heard a MAC user say things like ‘PC users are idiots’, by the way. :wink:
I also don’t understand, why PC users often post negative comments in subjects only concerning MAC’s?
What’s the point?

It is true, that APPLE has lost market shares in the design/video post production/CG business.
But nevertheless there are still many MAC users around. And some of them are great fans of Blender.
So I think it would be a real pity if all support for MAC users would just got cut off. And I think it’s also not fair, if PC users propose that.
I totally understand that it’s unreasonable for the Blender foundation to invest their resources into a Metal renderer. As long as there are other options in the future (Octane, LuxCore, RPR) I’m fine.

I wish PC and MAC users could deal with each other much more friendly, especially here in this forum. Why not support each other? There are good things in both worlds.

And please, please respect that some people enjoy working with MAC’s…even though you might not understand it. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

5 Likes

Considering Apple crushed and destroyed Flash, causing thousands of developers to scramble to recover, hey? Not to mention all kinds of other software they acquired and then eliminated the PC versions…

I agree with the prior sentiment. Plus, Apple has mostly been an AMD haus anyway.

I agree this is a crushing blow to Mac users who have or prefer NVidia rigs; I know I ONLY buy NVidia GPUs as a rule.

As crushing as this may be, I don’t think Apple even cares one bit…

-Will

Jolly, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Louis Rossman - he has a YouTube channel which discusses Apple’s practices as it relates to repairing Macs that Apple either outright refuses to, or tries to force you into buying brand new machines.

Being that you’re still using Macs, keep him in mind if you ever need repairs and Apples refuses to fix your machines or tries to charge you an arm and a leg!

Louis Rossman YouTube Channel

-Will

1 Like

I don’t doubt any of that WillBellJr.
And I can only repeat - I don’t like APPLE’s politics.

But see, I’m an apple user for almost 30 years now. At all times I had at least two MAC’s running.
In all these years I needed repair once! (Screen repair of a MacBook Pro.)
And I got this done quickly and easily at the Apple certified dealer nearby.

So I can only speak and judge from my own experience.

During this time I also had a few PC’s by the way. Windows and NT. So I have little experience there as well. Don’t want to get into details - but this was simply not MY world. :wink:

I am thinking about buying a Linux workstation though - only for Blender!

i dont care ,both amd and nvidia are contributors to the blender fund and they can fix whatever api problems meet

1 Like

I lived through the times when Apples had an advantage over PC’s when it came to design software and the vitriol, arrogance and down talking from Mac users was a thing. I remember it very clearly. Good for you if you never experienced it. “PC users are idiots” was one of the more harmless things i heard.
I worked as an intern in an advertising company and i was the only PC user there. Good times, i learned how to deal with mobbing there and became more quick-witted, a very helpful learning experience.

Revenge and tribalism. I agree it’s unnecessarily ugly, but if you know anything about the human psyche, you’ll know that this is unavoidable, especially with anonymous communication over the net.

You have a workstation, just put Linux on your Mac.