No more n00bs!

General Forums Off-topic Chat
1

yes! thats right! i hate n00bs!

and to go into detail, I don’t mean it in the context of people who have begun blender some time in the near past, I’m talking about people using the word a lot more then nessasary in the forum.

https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54824
“Rogenator wrote:
Greetings:
IMAGE DELETED DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF RESPONSE, I GUESS ILL CHANGE MY NICK TO SIMETHING LIKE @NDY OR BGDM TO RECEIVE ALT LEAST SOME COMMENTS”

https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55035
"nicely done, lol, coming from a fellow noob . i like the glass in particular. good job "

^^ so, ok, maybe a bit paranoid? i dont think so, many more of people calling themselves this and people talking of them. noone is a ““n00b”” when it comes to art, we are all as artistically powerful as eachother, but we are all and will always learn skills to reflect them on a medium.

I’m sure this has come about because people are complainng, and saying things that are just out of bounds for an artists forum, about loss in quality of posts here!? gotta be kidding, powerful community is more impoprtant, but in any case, the quality would have increased i’d say! Since 3 years ago the amount of users and the consistancy of skill and time learning skills (from the new documentation and default inflation of community) has grown rapidly.

This may seem a subtle matter, but we are about to all move to BlenderArtists, and some things we can take with us, some we can’t. Complaining about users who are learning (which is complaining about yourself) will cause problems, Roel is putting his heart and soul into BlenderArtists and will be seen as the official artists forum for blender, everyone should be accepted (who keep within the rules ofcourse =P). I hope and wish that users will not see themselves as a ‘n00b’ and those who may have more experience not think of them as one.

Lastly, the word really does mean learner, i will speak it in light joke to the mates, but hey, think of the impact of the word now with the vid games ;). I dont think it applies here at Elysiun, because when the word is spoken here too much, the mindset starts without knowing it, and suddely people think they are better then others, its starting to show, and i’ve never seen it this much.

Just thought id bring up my thoughts, things going great here but it just seems like this is one problem that has the possibility to become a habbit.

Lee

2

i second that!

3

It warms my heart to know you feel moved to start a thread like this. You’ve said what a lot of us, you included, have been saying in reply to the censor, filter, judge, isolate, and shout-at threads that come up every so often.

%<

4

Does this also include being against subpar “lensflare-art”?

5

Well I practically refrain from using the word noob, as it’s such a symbol for people who tend to speak only with caps and no grammatic structure whatsoever (not to mention the spelling :expressionless: )

And the persons who you see excessivly (sp?) using the word noob are often the ones who have the most to learn (at least about social skills, since it’s often used as an insult, and a missplaced one too).

6

Dear god. I see this headed in the direction of a “yes but what is art” debate. IMO, a lot of the stuff in the WIP is not interesting. Whether or not its art or not is not anything I’m prepared to argue. In all honesty, I look at about 2% of the work in the finished projects and WIP forums because the rest of it simply isn’t very interesting to look at. It’s gotten to the point where I only look at posts started by certain people. I get sick of wading through all the “trash” to get to the good stuff. But thats just me.

7

All hail the n00b!

The word is usually used as an insult in the gaming world where people call each other n00b whenever they do something stupid.
I’m not a monkey and haven’t been on this forum long enough to know but I don’t recall anyone using that word in the same context here unless it was a joke.

I think the word is insulting for people who consider themselves to be total n00bs at something they’ve just picked up and actually feel bad about their n00bishness and try hard to get rid of that feeling.

Whenever I play a game I get my ass kicked somehow.
I just stand up and wait for the right time to kick their ass. There is a learning curve to practically everything.
And you’re right, even the best don’t know everything and can sometimes learn something from, well, a total n00b :]
So there you go.
P

8

Well, when people use the term “n00b” in relation to someone’s ‘lack of ability’ really does piss me off. It’s used for nothing more than an offensive word these days, you could replace “n00b” with “talentless twat” and it’ll still mean the same thing, it’s just less Internet l33t and harder for the person to say “0h n0se Mr.M0d3rator m/
, I meant he was a beginnzor”

Calling someone a “n00b”, most would consider as pointing out the obvious when the term is used to point out ones skill level, so there is no reason to say it, at all, not even in the slightest.

But the actual word they use has little to nothing to do with anything, it’s their attitude towards everything and lack of maturity. I’ve already pretty much stopped posting here cause the pretty crappy attitudes and what not, I know im not perfect (or much of a valued member ;)), and i dont expect every single post to hold the uttermost maturity and seriousness but there are more people with shitty attitudes Vs those that are respectful.

It seems more and more people are joining with lack of common sense and manners, and it seems to be rubbing off onto other users where it is happening so much, its perceived as acceptable to call someone a newb, and im sure for most people who say it, it make them feel better.

However, this post is going to become yet another ever lasting debate which might get locked and nothing better comes out of it. We’ve had plenty of complaint threads or whatever in the past few months. The same thing happens on almost every single art forum /community, or any community that has some form of “gallery” to display works of some type. I don’t know how many forums i’ve been to now… but it’s always the same thing every single last one… elsyiun out of all of them has kept its fort up pretty good but its only gonna get worse…

9

To me, a “newb” (note the spelling) is a term for guys who are new to blender. A n00b or a noob or any of the other permutations is anybody who calls anybody else a n00b, or flames someone’s work or does anything “n00bish” like that. Those people just piss me off (almost make me want to act like a n00b meself! :x)

10

I think you need to realise the difference between someone who is new and genuinely wants to achieve something, and someone who posts aforementioned subpar “lensflare-art” (these effects are sometimes referred to as “ducks”), while thinking what they’ve made is the best thing since sliced bread. Personally, I find it hard to tolerate that kind of ignorance. Especially if they treat something that is obviously unfinished and/or totally un-artful (basically a bunch of basic objects slapped together) as a finished work and expect Oohs and Aahs frome everybody. People like that need to realise what is expected of them*. Just a bit of searching around the forum before posting does the job just fine.

Cheers,

Tom

*) Some members of this forum unfortunately assume a “friendly” attitude to people like these, thus increasing the frequency of this phenomenon. So-called n00bs (note the spelling) feel encouraged to post their crap without considering its artistic merit, or more appropriately lack thereof.

11

No, I know alot about art and design and the common types of community members… Ask any of the pro-designers around here for one of their first pieces of Art /Design, I’m pretty sure that most will show some horrid pictures… I’d be one of them too!

Does that mean we dont want to progress? at the time i thought it was the best thing since sliced bread because it was, for me. Looking back on anyone of them i would be pretty embarrased myself… But I probabily wouldnt have kept up art if everyone had such a half arsed attitude calling you a n00b in every single post for every single thread.

I dont think many people here even consider the person on the other end having a dissability… I’ve seen a couple of pieces been flamed on other forums, one for example was a webdesign with a horrible colour scheme, pretty much B255… but did anyone think he might have been colour blind? Nope. The only reason i found out he was cause I offered to help him on MSN with sorting the colour… Can’t tolorate his ignorance bmax? or maybe you should rework your attitude?

Of course, not everyone is colour blind, or ‘this and that’ but that gives no one a right to be shitty towards them or their work… If they could have done better, they would have dont you think? funny that?

I personally hate filter whored pieces and alike, but many good or pro designers have done the exact same thing when they were starting out, it’s pretty much the circle of life for art… Some have common sense to understand that and hold their work back till they’ve actually perfected to a good standard but others dont. But we should be making it clear that they should be practising and showing friends and family for motivation rather than posting a piece in design community’s gallery which is a place to show quality pieces of work, not pieces they done for fun, took 2 second or computer generated (filter whored) and pieces produced to practice… thats not art or a design… its just practice… and all should be placed in a “help me become better forum” where people can tell them what to learn next, what their doing wrong etc… Infact, you should be even if it’s posted in the finished forums but oh well…

But this topic isnt about “n00bs” posting “ghey” images (or is it?) but the generall attitude “i want you to love me, all whorship me” “you suck” “omg no reply? 20 views in 1 min and still no reply?” “thats a n00bish piece, die you whore” “OMG <fanboy> <fanboy> <3 <3 <3 <3 awsome work dude”

12

That’s the thing, though. What you said there is, more often than not, very closely related. I’m not bashing people who genuinely try, and despite failing to produce art, don’t cease to try to improve, and accept constructive criticism. What I’m strongly against is posting deviantART style heavily filtered bad drawings or straight out copies (read: plagiats) of good/renowned art. And of course fanboying thereof. I can’t stand fanboying of worthless shit that people post expecting everybody to explode in a plethora of appraisal and giving the posted “art” acclaim beyond all limits of sanity. I can dig up a few threads on elYsiun that display this kind of behavior. I’ve been attacked for criticizing filter “art” or scenes with a bunch of standard objects (read: spheres, cubes, cones, etc.) slapped together with your standard pink texture when you don’t change the color settings. I find it ridiculous.

13

hi,

in the past i hardly got any usefull response to my work for example.
which realy questipons myself why. is it because hardly anybody can relate to it, or because nobody knows something to add.

but i have to agree that i feel often distracted by the amount of beginner work and you realy have to search for good posts.

but i think this is also a problem of the setup of this forum here. the focused work forum was created for more developed work while i think even there to much work looks like in the WIP section.

i dont even know how many real pros are here in this forum. i think there is a hughe demand for a beginner forum section. i think they need to make first steps and their work often isnt as woerse as the stuff my students do in my 2d class. it is important to let them do these steps, however it is also important that this friendly attitude also states that they have to improve to get away from a ball and a cube scenes.

sometimes i think they should create a member list for pros and only those are allowed to post in a pro forum. other members need to proove they artistic work first to get that member status. but than comes the question about how you do that cause those people need to be hand selected.

just my two cents

14

After my long and much debated post about “Crappy Models”, I decided to put my money where my mouth was. I see new users on here everyday. I try(now I really do) to reply to posts by people who, from what I can tell, are new to blender.

I admit I was annoyed by some of the work I was seeing, alot of the work I was trying to point out was the seneless and pointless models. Most of these were done by New Users or Newb’s. Now when kids or adults who act like kids come here and act childish or post childish things…I would not hesitate to call them noob’s…I think the noob name is like an insult and ment that way.

It is a great thing to have such a large community like LohnC said. However, even in my own family, there are people who I would not want to have christmas dinner with. So its is safe to say there are people here who I think, and you think, dont belong, But hey it is a Free internet and its up to the Moderators to decide these things. All we can do is try in our own way(And I am talking to the advanced users)to help however we can.

I have changed my attitude since my “Crappy Models” post. I think it was for the better. I like newb’s and I want to help them…but noob’s who are here to mess around and act childish I can just ignore and let their posts fall to the wasteland…

15

hmm, I am glad that people are taking this well
here are my views -

  • Art is something that no one can teach, Implementing is what can be taught. Art comes from within, by thought process and “Inspiration”. So I dont think we should call someone / ourselves “n00bs”.

  • The people new to blender are not out of this world, its just a matter of time when they get close to making “Eye candy”. So, instead of discouraging them, people should inspire them to learn to better implement thier ideas.

  • Blender is not Art at all, its just a tool, like an artists pencil and canvas, given to an artist- will produce marvels, the same given to another lay man “might” not produce anything good.

  • And all of us being a part of the open source community, should encourage more and more people to use blender, and not teach them art or so. Instead “inspire” them to strech their limits. :slight_smile:

-Rishi

16

well i am all warm and gooey on the inside Lohny baby

off to find a nice sheep to share this moment with.

p.s.
(i do agree with what you are saying 100%)

Alltaken

17

@garphik:

What you’ve said is all very nice and good, but a little too idealistic if you consider the case here on elYsiun. What you are failing to make is the distinction between n00bs and new members. (Please refer to my previous posts for more information.) If you don’t differentiate between the two, you’ll get what we have now: low quality lensflare “art” by people who just want praise for nothing, and others who genuinely try and despite failing to produce what one might consider art initially, don’t give up. This leads to fanboying and bashing, and consequently to flamewars.

18

Enriq766, you’re a big man for saying that! I have renewed respect for you!

%<

19

i think it is wrong to debate the term art here.

this is not the right environment.

i would rather consider most of the work here design orientated.
i belong to those who make a difference between design and art.

i think one of the biggest issue and this one is hard to solve is the fact that
for noobs or newbies there is hardly any formal training here.
a central collection of tutorials would be good for example which also could include things about compositions etc. and not only how to model something.

claas

20

Newbie (I always spelled it that way) here.

I mean a real newbie ie one who does not yet know what lensflare art is and has just figured out how to set up preferences.

Please be kind.

And yes, some kind of order in the tutorials thread would be nice, maybe a link checker too?

Thank you.