Nomad's Baking Tools Seem better than Blender's

I’ve started dabbling in Nomad again ever since it got the crucial paid “QuadRemesher” update (best $15 I ever spent) and the Apple App Store got some much-needed low-poly modeling apps, so that my Nomad sculpts can actually be useable for animation without either having to constantly pass meshes between my laptop and my iPad Pro using cloud storage services (man I wish Apple products let me transfer meshes simply by connecting it to a USB port), or investing in some expensive retopology add-on because retopology in base Blender/free add-ons just ain’t it.

Inevitably I have reached a point in my 3D art journey where I’ve clearly hit Blender’s limits as a “Jack-of-All-Trades” software and recognize not ALL paid software on closed-source ecosystems like Apple’s are evil money-suckers.

I am particularly impressed with how straightforward and efficient Nomad’s texture baking tools are compared to Blender’s. You don’t have all these extra steps creating a texture map to then bake to, saving it to your hard drive, and also creating a separate UV map, repeating for EVERY individual object and material in your entire scene, making sure that bake texture and UV Map are selected in all the materials to make the bake work in the first place (or God forbid, to avoid accidentally overwriting any other texture images in your scene), then switch to Cycles, then temporarily adjust the samples because 4096 Samples is OVERKILL for most of the maps (I usually set it to 4 measly samples for the Albedo, Roughness, Metalness and Normal bakes, and maybe increase it to 128 for the AO bake), etc. etc.

Nomad’s baking tools, on the other hand, are refreshingly simple in comparison, kind of similar to ZBrush in the best ways. My workflow is to just bring in a low-poly base mesh, add a MultiRes modifier so that I can sculpt in and paint all the PBR details, automatically create a UV map from the low-poly, then bake the hi-poly details onto the low-poly mesh via textures. Then it’s a simple matter of deleting the MultiRes modifier to drastically reduce the final file size and exporting the scene as a GLTF file to rig and animate in Blender.

Automatic UV Map creation and layout also seems to be a particular strength for Nomad compared to Blender. To be fair, with a carefully-made manual UV unwrap, you can get good results in Cycles, although no matter what it seems like you have to use Blender’s even-more underdeveloped texture painting tools to “Clone Stamp” out the glaring seams that always seem to come out of even the best UV-Mapped models. But if you rely on Blender’s Smart Unwrap algorithm, it seems to make some very inefficient UV layouts and you have to bake the texture to be at least 4K resolution to capture a sufficient amount of detail. Also, you’d need to find a different, dedicated program like 3DCoat anyway to get rid of Smart UV Unwrap’s even uglier seams on 4K textures, since Blender’s texture painting tools seem unusable for anything bigger than 1K.

With Nomad’s automatic UVs, I’ve found it easiest to just bake the textures at 512x512 or 1K (like ZBrush Polypainting, ~500,000 polygons basically translates to 512x512 textures and 1 million polygons translates to 1K textures) and still capture all the detail in the final baked textures. To be fair, Nomad seems to struggle if each object is more than 1 million polygons (similar to Blender’s sculpting performance), so depending on the power of your tablet, you don’t need to bother with baking anything to 2K or especially 4K textures, unless tablet technology improves to the point where sculpting meshes that are 2 million or 4 million polygons apiece is more feasible. Basically, though, it’s impressive how detailed I can get with sculpting in the details and easily transfer them into surprisingly-small, game-engine ready textures. “A good carpenter doesn’t blame their tools,” as the saying goes, but as a hobbyist who only really has the weekends to work on 3D, maybe after work if my day job isn’t too draining that day, Nomad’s recent updates and superior texturing/baking tools really will result in me making more detailed and interesting characters than I have been making. It basically shifts my time away from more technical stuff and troubleshooting and towards simply making my 3D art look as aesthetically-pleasing as possible.

Perhaps the only reason I would still need to bother with Blender’s baking tools is to do combined bakes where I even bake the lighting in a single texture, or other maps like Subsurface Scattering and AO (Nomad seems to just do the standard Diffuse/Roughness/Metalness/Normal maps). For people who haven’t already paid for Nomad Sculpt and most likely its QuadRemesher addon, it’s perhaps cheaper to buy one of the many quality baking add-ons in the Blender Market, though you’ll still have to think about creating separate UV Maps for the bake on each object and making ABSOLUTELY sure your manually-created UV layouts are efficient enough so that only 1K textures are necessary.

Clearly I have a lot to say on the subject. What say you about Blender’s baking tools and how the Blender Foundation could try to improve the UV Mapping/baking tools to at LEAST be on par with impressive mobile apps like Nomad?

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Probably im more biased as the other but im genuinely dont understand how it could be possible to compare something which are for desktops, with something which are mobile only.
I mean like - who cares? I was excited about Nomad until i realize its for mobile.

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the desktop version is under development as we speak

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If it already have alpha roll and will “pay to own” - im personally would be really curious.

Well… if someone want ot sell any app then it should be better than blender… because blender is free and
because being open source and the addon feature is “extensible”… but costs… nothing.

Some apps do have the pro argument that it is well known by their users (and so also the quirks they have… yes they have also some) and so are very embedded into someones workflow…
…so it is almost funny that there ares some exodus after some changes to supscription and/or after the company was sold… so it doesn’t seem to be worthy enough anymore (??) and also that some profesionals reach out for blender then…

On the other hand some other professionals are very fond of/to some new software… and then their workflow includes another tools to use… and all the problems when exporting/importing in some exchaneg formats… Maybe this is because if one has the opportunity to “say” something about some app on the companies webpage it is better to praise it so your name is know to the community… even this is not actually the full truth ?? … Sometimes people behave… without complete freedom… i guess.

Also:

…why do people expect this from a free software ??? Mostly people agree that a less costly software may not have all the features a more costly software has. But wheni it comes to free software they put all the logic upside down !!

Most things could be better… but if some things are already very good… then when there are no new update (changes) then people also complain…

So: are there any better tool than blender ? Of course there is… but anyone has to decide on their own context what they:

  • want
  • can do
  • can afford
  • have time to learn anew
  • are captivated (in good or bad ways) of
  • are fond of

I also want a 64GB 16 core computer with one (or two) 32GB graphiccard(s) and the ten most used 3D software on the market and the next 25 best plugins/addons/tools…
…but you know… i mentioned afford… and time… :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

It would seem you’ve touched a nerve with some Blender fans :wink: Personally I’m extremely excited about how powerful Nomad is and I can’t wait to try it out when I get a tablet

The answer is sort of obvious.

If you’re renovating a house with a crew, how do you get the walls painted in a day, instead of a week? You take the crew that’s working on the bathroom, the floors, the electrical, whatever - and hand them a paintbrush. Tell them to stop whatever they’re doing, and paint.

Doesn’t mean they are all great at painting. Some might be great at painting, some suck at it. But the walls will all have paint on them at the end of a day.

Same with software.

Blender has a dozen things they’re working on at any given moment. And some of these things, some users never use anyway. Like for me - personally - I never bake textures. Ever. You could make texture baking in Blender 10x better than Nomad, and i would never notice, nor care.

So it becomes a question of - who wants what feature, who can actually code the feature, and who has time to code it. Answer isn’t always “make everyone paint”.

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Really appreciate the perspectives you’ve brought to the discussion. In my few tests baking some basic arch viz textures in vanilla Blender, I’ve found the seams are atrocious especially if de-noising is enabled for the texture baking. The de-noiser would need to take into account UV seams to prevent this. Sounds really complicated. I’d also like to try Nomad if it were available on PC.

As someone who unfortunately has to spend a LOT of time away from the computer and Blender post-pandemic, I care if mobile apps like Nomad become viable, portable ways to chip away at a 3D model even during my lunch breaks at work. I feel I’ve gotten a lot better at the fundamentals of good topology and especially keeping poly counts and texture sizes to a minimum (while still looking sharp and modern) ever since I started playing around with mobile 3D apps, mainly because the very nature of mobile devices makes it much easier to squeeze in at least a few minutes of practice every day. A lot of my skills have transferred to Blender (and possibly Maya if I ever get to use that again), too. Not that I would recommend it, but you can even download and practice Blender specifically on the Steam Deck!

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I’ve heard Nomad is working on a PC port. I’m perfectly fine with the mobile version for now due to my own living arrangements right now being, er, nomadic, making the prospect of doing 3D art on my phone or iPad way more appealing than waiting once every week for the chance to just sit down and play around with Blender. Again, there seems to be countless baking add-ons in the Blender Market that are often cheaper than Nomad+QuadRemesher if you want to keep everything within Blender, or need to bake something other than the standard Diffuse/Roughness/Metalness/Normal PBR maps, like the SSS.

Also, I didn’t know leaving the de-noising enabled could affect the bake. I should try my own tests again, making sure de-noising is disabled, to see if it at least reduces the amount of glaring seams I have to fix with vanilla Blender’s equally-underdeveloped texture painting tools.

Okay, so I did try baking textures again with the de-noiser disabled. Other than having to maybe blur out the inevitable noise in the final render, the bakes in my tests came out practically flawless at 1K size without any of the hideous seams I was getting with the de-noiser on. I think the de-noiser didn’t affect bakes until Blender 4.0 or so, which is why I didn’t even consider turning it off until @coby mentioned that quirk.

So yeah, vanilla Blender’s bake tools could be better, but at least I no longer find it unusable.

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Hello! Kind of an old post but I have something to say.

I’m kind of in the same page as you were @jeffrey.thrash . I’m not working at home anymore and my job is CGi related but not exactly a 3D artist job anymore. I bought an iPad (M4 16GBs RAM) just for sculpting and found out there are some very decent tools. I used Blender for years for sculpting (had also used ZBrush before). With my high end tablet Nomad runs very smooth even at many million polygons (this is not the case on Blender even with my high end PC at my house). I do miss some Blender brushes though (specially the pose brush), Blender doesn’t have many brushes but they are all good and you can do anything with them. Nomad has an even more reduced default brushes. I have owned my iPad for a month now so I still have a lot to explore.

If you want the best addon for baking in Blender go for SimpleBake. It is a no brainer. All the stress of baking many high polys in low poly objects at the same time, baking different materials in the right UVs (even UDIM support), automatically exporting, light baking etc. It does it all.

Blender texture painting is very clunky… I’ve been using PBR Painter addon to avoid using adobe’s Substance Painter and it has worked for me but it requires a very good workstation and is way more technical than Substance Painter. It also has not many tutorials online as SP.

And for retopology if you are on an iPad I highly recommend you get Cozy Blanket. For me it is the best, easiest and funniest retopology tool out there. It also has UVs unwraping (only manual I guess) and it bakes normals and albedo only maps(I guess).

I’m currently taking a look at the bake options in Nomad so I don’t have an opinion on it right now. But it is good to know it is easy and not as technically difficult as it is in Blender.

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My concern with non- open source softwares is the possibility of them being sold to evil companies like Adobe (like substance painter, designer and stager), Maxon (Like ZBrush was) , Autodesk etc. Unfortunatelly there is nothing like Blender or open source 3D apps that are on a professional level on tablets I guess… and I really need a tablet’s portability. So I’m giving these apps a chance and really liking them.

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Yeah the main drag of blender’s baker is that it can be irritatingly slow depending on resolution, selected AA and type of texture, notice I am not referring to the setup itself (which is hilariously basic for today workflow, but at least it can be “fixed” by addons), I am referring to the texture baking phase after clicking “bake”.
So things like skew correction and better UI setup for managing/storing texture before and after baking would be nice, thankfully some addons do that already which mean no real issue in that front.
The real issue is the texture baking speed as forementioned.

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Since we already revived a stale thread, I might as well chime in on this aspect:

Texture Paint in Blender is leaps and bounds better than most Blender users are aware of because they are not texture painters to begin with most times, and the tools are not one-for-one in line with Photoshop, Substance, Mari, or even Gimp so most users look around and just arrive at something and think they understand it all. The fact is that most of the possibilities in Texture Paint are there if a user spends a long time getting familiar and digging around - I’ve been using it over ten years as my main painter, and I STILL learn something new all the time.

As far as Nomad goes, I won’t be using it because I am at the age that I’d rather just invest in learning more about Blender and scripting for myself the macros I need to get by as well as looking at tying Krita, Gimp and Inkscape into a better loop around Blender for my needs - but I really dig that these tablet programs are now enabling users to pick and choose how to go about creating instead of being hogtied to the desktop. Friends of mine that used to only draw tattoos on paper now draw on their IPads with their pencils, and the apps they use make Photoshop look clunky.

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I’ve been using Nomad for a week now, and I didn’t even know it could do any baking.

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Maybe I should make a tutorial on baking the PBR vertex paints in Nomad when I find the extra time, could be useful for other Nomad users…

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That is basically my main reason for even giving mobile apps like Nomad and Procreate a chance–portability, and sometimes these apps come up with fantastic workarounds to the obvious fact that phone screens are small and have no buttons/keys. I think I’ve improved a lot simply by having a way to at least practice 3D modeling, texturing, baking and lighting on the go, no matter how busy my day may be with other stuff or how far away I am from a proper computer and Blender.

That said, lately I’ve discovered that Blender is perfectly usable on my Steam Deck (I just need to obviously make smaller and more optimized scenes on the lower-powered handheld), and kind of prefer that over mobile phone apps these days due to the fact that it’s not competing for battery life on a device I use for important calls to family, friends and co-workers. Of course, it’s much easier to transfer my skills from a slower version of Blender on my Steam Deck to a more capable version on my computer since they’re basically the same thing.

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I’d watch it.

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When it comes to touchscreen apps, any point in the UI can be made into a hotkey. The better designed apps align the most commonly used functions along the left side of the screen for quick thumb access.

Though I have no idea how you use these apps on a phone screen. I tried using Nomad on my iPhone 13, and it was mostly buttons, with just enough room for you pop a finger in to sculpt.

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