Object IPO or root bone for position?

Imho that last point is a bit…redundant?
Well, I mean, if you already add joint pinning (sorry , english is not my language, and get lost easily with tech talk) to worldspace (this is the way it is in most high end packages I tested in those jobs(nothing great, but I could taste the packages…)) imho the best…as if done well, at least you start with a way to do accurately all the stuff; if later on you can also have access to mixing motions, reusing them, wonderful…but I am more worried on the actual limit when a foot is hard to leave steady. (yep, I have done too, with a cheap package, but is a pain, and at the end the quality is never the same)

The situation is not only feet and floor, as I said…Is many more situations. If you make the biped walk in a side view, you can see to quite acurateness (zoom if needed) to the floor grid line. yet so, of course a floor limit level would be useful, but imho, having worldspace joint pinning already gives you that. Adding the floor level after that first feature is done, seems more sensible to me…

I mean, I did walk cycles, atackas and stuff for main players just using character studio planted key (glueing to world space) , free key (release that plated key at any frame) , and sliding key (like with planted key if u use the move biped tool (in cs there’s a different tool to move the biped; the typical move tool is what ik moves the body parts, while you often fine tweak with fk rotations.) in y axe, then it stretch legs till maximum (not needed but nice) and once reached that, continues in the air. If u move it down even in same frame (for testing, don’t droping the mouse) and go much down…it ik rotates very naturally (also thanks to joint limits premade in cs biped) as the foot joint that was planted found it’s y position .With planted key, it will “search” its x,y,z position. If used sliding key instead, it looks only the y position, and will fall wherever the x z position it has now. The legs will flex as in the other case. )

Both methods where reaally useful. And the ability to “free” them at any moment, activate again for another joint…In art of Illussion you can do this with several joints at same time; in character Studio, I don’t remeber…yes, I think you could, as I used with both feet fro jumping,

I could be moving in long jumps, whatever, the biped, it still would consider the very exact point of world space where I decided to pint the joint.

if some one tests the cs4.2 that comes with max in the free 30 days trial, you may not get the idea; learning to use cs at beguining is not trivial, but the most functional and easy once learnt just a pair of things…

Mirai has a similar feature to this of the pinning. And some other incredibly sweet things.

I done have a single doubt also Maya does. yet I have not used to that extent.

I have very little space, can’t host it for long, but convinced someone (with much a better pc) to install the max trial with cs, they allow to download one from their site, and better, they give it to magazines so you can install and see.

Well, I did put a biped, and grabbed with camstudio some movements, I activated pinning in both feet (could have done with a hand, etc) I get too nervous when using these screen grabbers, so it’s a poor video , not showing the real power of the feature, I am afraid. Which indeed is seen while hard at animating, not only joint-testing in a single frame. I mean, greatest advantages come then, when accurately want to pose and keep it well ciclyc, feet not sliding, etc, etc. There’s not a floor level. I just pinned both feet. I released one for you to see, later. You can always align a feet to the one which is planted in max/cs. In case you want.

This may seem a nonsense but imho is essential…

the way it does it (2 mb zip)

sorry, I’ll delete soon that zipped avi; it’s bigger (2 mb) than the last one and I have very little space.

Anyway, you see I have to go to the panel menu to glue a joint, in th eright side. Is much better the Art Of Illussion aproach in what only is joint pinning

This is two matters:

1, ‘sliding feet’ problem when mixing Action strips in teh NLA

Solved by doing an Action specific ‘Pinned Bone’

2, Making a character walk with the center moving with it.

Solved by letting the user set a ‘Root bone’ in Armature Edit mode. This gives acces to the Armature Object position from within the Action in Pose Mode. But there is one important difference than just giving acces to the Object IPO in Pose Mode: It should only move the Root bones children with it so that IK goals stay in place.

Extrudeface: Watched your demo. I can easily do everything you did there with my human rig in Blender. Maybe you’ve just never played with a good enough Blender biped rig. Grab my latest, bestest one here:

http://harkyman.home.comcast.net/finalrig.blend

What screen capture software did you use? I’ll try to make a little video of me pushing my rig around for you.

That’s a nice rig harky. Shouldn’t something like this be included in Blender under Armature>Human Rig.

The future list could be:

Armature>>
Human Rig <(your human rig)
IK Chain <(this should automatically add a null bone in the end with IK
FK Chain <(like the old Add>Armature)
Null Bone <(round ‘null’ bone for constaints such as IK)

That’d be okay with me. :slight_smile:

‘Extrudeface: Watched your demo. I can easily do everything you did there with my human rig in Blender. Maybe you’ve just never played with a good enough Blender biped rig. Grab my latest, bestest one here:’

erm…well, the fact is I am newbie in blender as says my sig. I am one of the most standard examples of someone that is trained in other 3d tools but not in Blender and arrives to Blender.

But I had dowloaded your rig, and tested it. (now I did it again) Also the xsi style rig.And some other.

The thing is…in cs biped (actually a bunch of boxes with very good setup, after all is just that…well, and a lot of added cool features) I can fk rotate practically every part bout doing no strange rotations (they will rotate its children.They become “the boss”) , while yet I can ik pose also.I am afraid that avis do not show well its power…but ok. Indeed, I’d need a fulll session of animating for you to see…

Besides, I am seriously worried about the fact that this rigs (did the weird hat tut succesfully) almost always need a broken armature: that is, not a continuous chain.I am afraid as I am making all this to use Blender as a realtime animation tool (not even as my modeller) for my home projects. And also as I like 3d in general, no matter the tool :wink: .The problem could be is I am afraid *.x files (the wip plugin from Ben Omari is a great hope) and similar may need it to be a full chain. Also, I don’t like to see unwanted stretching occur while positioning a foot , or clavicle, etc.

In Gmax, you use bones, but the different chains are linked with standard link tool, which does not stretch, an dusually traslates into x files as another hierarchy link.

I played with this blender rigs, and while they are outstanding, you don’t have as much control as with biped. (no pun intended, we’re just on this question) Grab the trial…and if you end up more or less dealing with the interface (be fair here; 30 minutes wouldnt suffice a max user to learn blender, the opposite either happens… :wink: …yet you coul dreach the cstudio biped tool and see this in no time.Probably.As you are very experienced in the general stuff.)

Besides, the gizmos (at these moments is being discused at Blender Org, Monkeiboi proposal ) do make a difference. As you can fk rotate every upper arm, calf, whatever…you not depend only on ik…and, really, I firmly believe ik is often not enough precise. Is cool as it provides a gesture, and usually similar ones, giving coherence, but…acurateness imho is better witha mix of both; I need to be able to fk anything at any moment. (I know, I need too many things :wink: But imho these things are what people(noobs, newcomers, maxers, etc) note, and even not conciously) So, the 2 things in combo: gizmo for rotations (rings) , that appears in place once a part is selected (gizmo size is configurable, and truespace is right click and can scale gizmo at any moment) and fk rotate, or ik move that part of the biped. You want a VERY specific pose, with all in very specific angles, searching for a precise pose…you usually need to be able to fk any part…Well, at least I am firmly convinced of it, but i could be wrong.

With this I mean, that Blender is absolutely great. (and better than way many comercial tools) .Just there are interesting methods and ways in othe rpackages…usually they look at what happens in other ones, and also, common intrfaces help artist to get on quicker.

Max has copied a huge lot of many packages. Mirai, Maya, Lightwave, etc…and I am not against that. At least, see it and evaluate if you want it. And if not…why not :wink:

The rings/arc rotate things is becoming wildly standard. And really I think is extremely good for workflow. just like gizmos for scale, move.

I mean, these gizmos are part of Max, not cstudio specific.

In a word, control. A bit more would be great. And also, the price for that rig, is what i mentioned.Yet so, surely for hi res rendering (blender main goal?) it does not matter, if careful with unwanted stretching.Not even sure if would become a problem with x export to games, but probably. besides that extra care slow things a bit.

That’s to your point that can be done the same with a good Blender rig…Well, indeed, seems Blender can do several things better than Max…but imho, Character Studio is one of the strongest point of it.

Thanks a lot for the rig :slight_smile:

‘What screen capture software did you use? I’ll try to make a little video of me pushing my rig around for you.’

I am also a windows user…it is not for linux too… it is called camstudio. I use always 1.22 version. As the newer ask you for a validation.Keeps being free but…I just grab the 1.22.
hey if you use windows (or don’t mind to use it ;)) I can pass you the file by email. (not available in inet now) PM me your adress, I can send it. :slight_smile:

Please, nobody take this as a pun.I have already started to like Blender a lot and follow eager it’s updates… Is because I want it even better :slight_smile:
I helped this way some other 3d authors. Not so much time as I had before, but Blender is great.

This is two matters:

1, ‘sliding feet’ problem when mixing Action strips in teh NLA

Solved by doing an Action specific ‘Pinned Bone’

Well, this is a rather old thread I ran across… but:

If you are using a path and NLA thru the STRIDE option, if you CAREFULLY measure it, well, it shouldn’t slide at all (at least in straight paths).
A way I found to measure really precisely is to select a foot in contact pose (pose mode), press NKEY read the YLOC (or wahterver axis you are moving on), then select the other foot in same pose and read YLOC. The difference between these two values multiplied by two is the STRIDE.

Another way to avoid sliding effects is using empties at certain problematic places (in the ground), and copy location constraints in the feet control bones of your armature, targeting these empties. Then edit influences till you are happy. It is a bit complex but works with short walks (otherwise it is a pain in the ass)

Cheers.

malefico.