Open Source irrationalism on display again at CGTalk (guidelines ignored)

The real content pertaining to the irrational defense of Blender without giving a regard to balance and acknowledgment starts on page 2-3 on this thread

I do remember Letterrip saying that Blender users must not overhype Blender’s strengths as well as ignoring Blender’s weaknesses, use balance in discussion, and not go to the point where you say if you don’t like something then you’re not using Blender properly.

But it has happened again, overhyping Blender’s strengths to a large degree, some refusal to acknowledge Blender’s weaknesses, and using irrational discussion and analogies to defend Blender. Just now our friend The Verb made a claim Blender is superior to most 3D packages without mentioning a reason or balancing it with the fact that commercial packages still have things Blender doesn’t.

So Blender is a free program, but some of the people are using the same irrationality that turns people off of being a part of say, the GIMP or Ubuntu communities. Do we really want the open source world to be known for things like this considering it nearly hijacked that’s forum’s thread on Sculptris?

That’s not actually what he said. He said it was already superior to many 3d packages. Which is arguably true. Many and Most are different things. And who appointed you Hall Monitor? What you say my be true but I don’t know that we need to go around policing other members on other sites. Let CGTalk figure itself out.

Urhg…argh…oh gawd NO - for the love of anything good…not again???

These discussions are futile, they never lead to anything useful. You either find the software useful - participate - or find something else you may find useful.

A good piece of software don’t need advocates or zealots - just users.

Thanks Dragon for quoting me super accurately, very much appreciated.

If you put effort into something then why shouldn’t you defend it?

What, you are scared of what people might think of you? grow up.

A lot of us have put a lot of effort into the Blender community, we may not have programmed a tool but we’ve shared knowledge, tested, and helped with funding as much as we could and when some one comes along and say’s something along the lines of ‘I looked but it’s still crap because it’s not 3Dcoat’ etcetera, well it’s actually very annoying and when you try and tell that person that actually it’s unique, like every other application out their and then get the rest of the sheep complain; Well can you blame people for offering up their opinion?

I’ve noticed that most people are interested in becoming part of the community, which is always a good thing, with more people comes more knowledge, talent, and of course a much more varied community, however there are some people who have a hatred for it, like some people have Autodesk who see it their duty to complain when ever they can, and to be honest it’s f… annoying.

At the end of the day criticism when served properly is very good, no denying that, but blatant attempts to put down another person or their effort(s) (In this case the developers) is quite pathetic.

The problem with Blender is that it is the underdog which not only draws many people to it but also leads to users being more zealous than other users. The things that bothers me is when you read comments from people who don’t use the app in those threads that mistake the users for Blender itself.

That I am aware of Blender Foundation doesn’t aspire to have Blender replace apps like Maya or 3ds or whatever. They are really just trying to make the best tool they can for their users. If Blender does replace some other tool that’s all fine and good but it doesn’t satisfy some bullet point on a to-do list. If the “industry” decides to “take Blender seriously” then that’s all fine and good but it isn’t like Blender (i.e. Blender Foundation, the developers, Ton, etc) is elbowing it’s way into CG Studios and demanding it be “taken seriously”. That’s all the users arguing and gabbing in those threads. I think Blender is happy to be the best tool it can be and tries to lower the barriers to entry (not just price but the current redesign) for new users.

But if new users are put off by the crowd of Blender Worshipers who lack tact and civility then they never would have become users for long anyway. That’s just (part of) the crowd that Blender draws. If Blender did become the defacto tool everywhere many Blender users would have to quit to become full time Linux devotees. Guys like Letterrip do their damnedest to help maintain a decent reputation for Blender but there isn’t too much you can do except hope that real users will look past the braying sheep and see a tool that works for them.

Funny though. Whenever I see criticism in most other threads for other apps most people are happy to leave it at toe-may-toe toe-mah-toe. There is nothing to defend. The work speaks for itself. It’s called being a grown-up. Someone says the new interface is crap, Blender is crap, the developers suck, so what??? They weren’t your target audience and you wont change their minds. Do you really think someone else reading the thread will see that guy say it is crap after 20 people say they think it is great and go “oh, it’s crap, I’m outta here.”? What they will do though, and I promise you it is happening, is come upon a thread about a program they looked at once and couldn’t figure out the interface but now there is some long thread about improvements in the program and a redesign and what they will see right off the bat is a bunch of people arguing and move on because who needs more noise in their life. It’s software, not your Mom. Don’t take it so personally.

Look, I think AD is addressing an issue that bothers me, but he’s addressing the wrong guys. When a new version of Blender is mentioned over at CGTALK, it quickly degenerates into a pissing contest. I myself have behaved badly in the past and I don’t want to be a part of CGTalk anymore.

Yes, there will always be fanboys of any app. But when a civilized discussion is going on, some other user criticize the efforts of the devs to an extent that is just a plain unjustified attack just for the sake of bashing Blender as a contender. I’ve got into a clash with a forum leader myself (who probably by the sound of it never used Blender in her life) and her nonsensical attack really draws the blood from under your fingernails. Ah well… I can’t help but to attribute her attitude to P.M.S.

With some of these guys you really want to keep it polite. You keep replying things like “yeah, to each their own”, or “yes, Blender seriously lacks in that department” but they don’t care. Some other apps users are just there to discredit Blender. However polite you remain, since we are all humans, we can’t take it anymore.

And if someone defends himself he will be called fanboy. Just like politics. Anyone who just dare to dream to keep guns locked away from children is a red hot Marxist socialist.

I have just one request to all my fellow Blender users, please boycott CGTALK. It’s a hostile environment. Don’t post new releases news over there. We all know that every single release brings ground breaking features, goodies, eye candy and more stability. But over there at CGTalk, many outsiders it doesn’t matter one bit. They will post very inflammatory comments regardless. Since forum leaders there don’t do anything to moderate the discussions, I’ll take it that they approve of it. The forum leader that I talked about was even looking to shut down the Blender thread. Yeah right! As if the Blender community will be homeless without a Blender thread at CGTalk.

@Verb: speak your mind, don’t back down!

Boycotting CGTalk doesn’t accomplish anything. I agree that Leigh was being a complete tool in that thread. She basically waved around the threat of closing the Blender forum like it made her a god and she better not be displeased. And I had to work really hard to bite my tongue because she was flat out just being an elitist ass. But CGTalk is a good forum overall and it is a good way to get mindshare from new users and from pros alike. And the more people that come to Blender because it is “just another app” as opposed to “joining a CG jihad” the better Blender is for it. To quote Chris Rock: if someone steps on your Puma, let it slide.

How disappointing, that cgtalk thread seems almost congenial compared to some others I’ve seen. AD is getting a bit like the media eh? Making much ado about nothing…

Just stop visiting such topics. If it does not exist, it does not exist.

Or like my mum always told me: grow up!

Thanks toontje.

I think Ace Dragon is referring to this sentence:

Blender has already exceeded many commercial packages.
I don’t see the word “most”. If anybody can pinpoint it, please do :smiley:

Seriously, there is like a gazillion 3d packages in existence today, and a lot of them are half-baked and some are merely jokes. Blender is a first-tier application. 3D packages doesn’t only refer to 3DMax, Maya or XSI.

Hi Team,

I am not here to comment about someone’s thoughts or reply. But I do feel, we need to help blender to shine more. We dont always need to compare blender with other 3D software out there to show how good blender is. But as a blender community we need to help it showcase it features. We should stop just talking about it and should create SHOWCASE Reels or models to prove the point. IF you go to any 3D software page out there, you will see a showcase reel of what that software is capable of or at least, a demo reel to show what are the new features added in that release. They would have collected and created a showcase reel from the user base of the features used. We as a commuinty should create awesome , jaw dropping video’s to show case at least the new features that are added to this release. For an example Sculpt tool. Kindly people/artist or someone who is reading this come up with a sculpt model that you created with this new sculpt tool with the features that you liked in this new Blender 2.53. We can start with this and create a video with full of different models created using this. We can put that somewhere in this forum and next time when some some compares blender sculpt with zbrush or mudbox or which ever 3D package they compare, they can take a look at these new models and they can decide on that. If we can start doing this from this release, may be from next release we can actually release demo video’s with the software and showcase the features in that release. There by, that will be an opportunity for us to showcase our talents and also the blender feature. Ton is doing this job by creating awesome movies to SHOWCASE blender’s power, we as a community can do smalls things like these to help blender and support its future.

PS: If you find the language to be bad or grammatically wrong, i am sorry, English is not my mother tongue.

How very true, I’m surprised he hasn’t pushed more threads like this calling for sanctions and the possible threat of war on anyone who stands up for what he believes in :stuck_out_tongue:

You can stand up for Blender if you want, but the way I got it in that thread it was like “Fight the power, do it the Blender way, you’re not using Blender properly, be easy on our app. because it’s free, ect…”

It’s not like I side with the forum leaders on issues anyway, I even considered they should rename the forum “CG Saloon” the way they allow some threads go and what they post, it doesn’t mean there aren’t any people on CGTalk who’s opinions are worth listening to.

Dude, seriously, that thread is not anything to panic over. I think you need to chill out, maybe even go outside on occasion.

I don’t usually chime in in this type of threads, but this comment from iblenderppc just seemed fantastic to me. A pleasure to read. Glad to see people thinking the way you do iblenderppc.

What’s all this commotion about? XD

With a skim read of pages 2-3 I picked up on a lot of positive feedback and comments towards Blender. People seem happy with the direction its heading with 2.5 (amateurs and professionals by the looks)

AD why dont you spend some time learning another 3D program? Perhaps that will make you less sensitive towards comments about Blender and give you less of a ‘fanboy’ attitude. Id highly recommend it.

We ALL know that Blender is not perfect, and like ANY other application NEVER will be, but from the perspective of an old fart Blender user, it sounds like everyone is worried about being politically correct. “F” that…

Here’s the deal, there’s a big difference between “fanboyism” and attempts to transfer knowledge. Unfortunately it seems that ANYTIME someone attempts to clear up the lack of knowledge regarding Blender, they are labeled as a “fan-boy”

I understand the need to be reasonable, (and certainly some users do go a little overboard) but for gods sake we either appreciate what is being developed here and STAND BY IT, or just shut up. Why the hell do you CARE what these CG elitists think? Blender will make it’s inroads despite their closed mindedness. It’s just a tool… one hell of a good tool, but just a tool. If you think that you need to cater to their Maya, Max, Modo whatever status quo bleetings in order to be a CG guy and work in the CG industry your dreaming. Of course that’s what the’ll say, and do you know why? it’s because their scared to death of change, change they have no control over, and guess what, Blender is an example of that type of change. Here’s the good news, the guy’s (like me) who actually sign the checks are discovering this new open-source way of doing things… it may not be so much today, but the time is not far off that there will be a great interest in hiring those with strong Blender fundamentals, oh, and talent, and a willingness to work hard, sorry it ain’t Paradise Found.

I say if your REALLY comfortable with your Blender knowledge base, evangelize Blender and the Blender devs if you wish too, just be smart about how you do so. There’s plenty of excellent examples of Blender work out there. Put a link to some of these when countering these idiots statements. Of course, you can’t win the interface arguments, cause “everyone does it this way” and “I know best” are non-logical statements that basically mean one thing… “Don’t make me have to learn something different then what I already know… unless of course if some big name CG star says it’s better”, THEN I’ll be all positive about it.

And Dragon, whichever you are… Kansas, Ace, Cyborg etc… what’s with the run of tabloid journalism? Are you shooting for a job at the Enquirer?