Orco or UV (Velociraptor Texuring)

Well, I posted this in the WIP forum, but people are giving me more C & C and less answers about texturing, which is fine, I just figured I would come in here and ask my question and hopefully get a few more answers.

I’m done with the modeling of my velociraptor. These are a couple imgages of my mesh. I didn’t put even basic dinosaur skin textures on it, because I wanted this to be about the model. Obviously texturing comes next. So I pose this question, (since this is my first model that is an animal or anything non mechanic). For texturing an animal, specificly this raptor, which texturing method is better, taking into consideration quality, time consumption and effort. Doing orco textures, or UV mapping. I know the basics of UV mapping, so learning either one is not too much of an issue. Env has a great tutorial on orco texturing things like dinosaurs, but I’m not quite sure how he got them to be seemless. That is my biggest concern, whether or not I can get the Orco textures to look like they are seemless. Anyway thanks for help and opinoins.

-Blazer

ps- I know he is missing his right eye, i forgot I took it out before I set my computer to render these.

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mhoecker/Images/velociraptorfinalmodel.jpg

http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mhoecker/Images/velociraptorfinalmodel2.jpg

I’d try using procedural textures first - then you won’t have to worry about mapping type. I seem to remember a pretty nice raptor textured procedurally, I’ll see if I can find it.
EDIT : I am an idiot ! That was you ! :expressionless:

UV mapping gives better results though I think, as shown by Env’s famous Allosaurus.

for quick results ORCO mapping with procedurals is ok. but if you want a really nice texture with different shades and colors mapped properly there’s no way around UV - mapping. it has become a lot easier with the latest unwrapping-tools (LCSM) available in the current bf-blender/tuhopuu build.

quick tut (that’s what i found out):

look around your model and try to imagine, if that was a real raptor where would you cut the skin in order to get it unwrapped easily? i’d suggest at the “border” of each limb, and each limb needs a cut along it’s axis. in blender you simply enter edit mode, select the edges you’d like to cut and press CTRL+E>>make seam (works only in builds supporting LSCM unwrapping). leave edit mode and change to face-select mode, hit “U”>>LSCM >>voila. blender cuts the faces at the seams you defined and gives you non-overlapping isles of faces, which you’ll probably need to scale/rotate/tweak a little. after that, export the UV-layout using the built-in script (from the image window menu: “UV”>>Save UV Face Layout") and start painting the texture in your favourite image editor program. … then map back…

sure i missed something but this is a lot easier then ever before (i even don’t remember all the big 3D packages having such a tool that easy to use!!)

have fun

If you use UV mapped texture(s) only you’ll only have access to Spec and Mir functions and the Shaders of the material. Using the same texture in both the UV editor and the texture chanells will allow you to use all the texture mapping (MapTo) options (though, if you map the texture thru the UV editor you would then have to map the same Image to UV not Orco in the texture chanells).

It’s not much extra work since most of the grunge is done in the UV mapping already, and you get so much more life out of textures. A UV texture reacts to a light only by becomming more or less visible as you change the position or properties of the lamp, whereas with Image textures over UV’s the light activates all of the texture Mapto selections and settings.

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If you decide to go for orco then there’s a good tut on how to orco a dinosaur by env…

http://www.enricovalenza.com/howto.html

But you probably knew that allready …

md01

Originally posted by Rhysy 2

UV mapping gives better results though I think, as shown by Env’s famous Allosaurus.

Actually, I’m pretty sure that he did that with orco textures, which is why I was bringing them up against UV. That dinosaur alone made me think that orco could be better than UV.

Thanks for all of the responses. I’m going to download the newest build and see if I can’t whip something up with this new model unwrapper. It sounds extremely promising.

Never mind. I was wrong. Env used orco for Aniax and UV for the Alloosaurus. :expressionless:

Well, as soon as I find a stable build with the UV unwrapper by tuhopuu, I’m going to start with the UV mapping. Thanks for all the input, and I would still like to hear more from Env, if you come around. You obviously know exactly what you are doing when it comes to both modeling and texturing dinosaurs. Any help, or comments from anyone would be greatly appriciated though.

No, you are right, for the last Allosaurus test I used OrCo, exactly the same way as for the Aniax (but with a little trick I explained to some italian blender when we met in Milano: basically, apply a RVK to the model as final position, then deform the mesh to a more squared shape and apply a RVK as FIRST position. This way the texture will be fixed to the squared mesh and don’t stretch).
I prefer OrCo because you can re-work the model without the need to apply again the uv coordinates.

BTW, if you have other question, I will be pleased to help for what I can. :slight_smile:

Env

ahh, good old lightwave trick :slight_smile:

Do you have a link to a tutorial on how to do that RVK thing in more detail? I hate when textures get stretched. As for using OrCo, how do you place the textures accurately? I find the placement options very limited.

No, I didn’t think about a tut, but probably it’s more simple to understand with some image so I will do a short explanation. BTW, I didn’t know it was an old lightwave trick.
What do you mean with limited placement? You can decide what axe mast be mapped with the texture, you can decide the size and also there is a dislocator slider for each axe; isn’t it enough? :slight_smile:
Tut on the way, I tought to keep it for the Blending with Dinosaurs documentation but if the blender fellows need a hand…

Env

I have up to now used UV mapping but can see the benefits of the orco method. Following the Aniax tutorial I mapped a simple sphere with a grid repeating in the x and y directions.
http://members.shaw.ca/rjplus/mapxyz.jpg

env, how did you deal with the seams in the Aniax and Allosaurus textures (never explained in the tutorial). The forehead (orange) for example in the Aniax tutorial matches perfectly with the top of the head (cyan). Until I can figure out how this is done I feel the my texturing abilities can’t improve. Even just seeing the colour and bumpmap images would help.

Any help greatly appreciated
GreyBeard

This is the biggest question I had about orco textures too. How did you get that perfect blending? Did you make it sort of like a UV Map, then break it apart?

Besides the fact that with OrCo you have to do single texture for each side filling the texture space of the model, you can first paint the texture as a whole so don’t to have seams, and then split it apart for your needs. :slight_smile:
Anyway, then a little tweaking is of course a must… but one other way is to create only the bump maps as single images for each side, and apply the color map as a whole from a side. Unless you have particular features to show, let say, from the front view (and in this case you can apply only this features from the front side), a color map from the side blend the top and the sides of the model quite well. Actually, because the model have different materials for every view, you can easily play with the texture in several ways.
Yes, I forgot to mention this in the tut. :expressionless: :smiley:

Env

env,

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply :smiley:

There are still some basic things I don’t understand about your workflow in the Aniax tutorial. I understand how you made the template for panting in gimp. I’m guessing that after you painted the template that you then split the template into various separate textures according to the texspace size for application onto the model.

You say:

a color map from the side blend the top and the sides of the model quite well.

and you say:

Unless you have particular features to show, let say, from the front view (and in this case you can apply only this features from the front side)

I’m having trouble understanding what you mean here. Is the blending of seams done in the paint program (gimp) or by another method I don’t know. It almost sounds like your applying your two side textures and then applying the top texture with alpha transperancy at the edges to the top. This would require that faces be in two different materials (top overlapping the side materials). Is this possible?

When you speak of bump mapping it also sounds like I can use a different material layout for the bumpmap and the colour. How would you do this?

A further comment. You said in the tutorial that mapping from 45 degrees wasn’t available. Couldn’t you use an empty rotated 45 degrees and the “object” mapping input.

Thanks again for your time
GreyBeard

Hei, you are welcome, all we are here to learn and share each other the little we know, I think. :slight_smile:

a color map from the side blend the top and the sides of the model quite well.

Unless you have particular features to show, let say, from the front view (and in this case you can apply only this features from the front side)

What I meant is that splitting the mesh in different materials accordingly to the different point of view-mapping you can map each different texture per material in a different way, and this can be also for each single texture channel inside each material.
So you can map the bump map from the side for the sides of the model, from the front for the front and from the top for the top-bottom of the model, meanwhile the color map can be mapped from the same angle for all the materials… for instance from the side, so if you have stripes in your color map they will be mapped seamlessly on all the model. On the other hand, if you need some particular feature (different stripes on the top of the head) you can always change the mapping coordinates for that features. No need for alpha transparency to blend.

A further comment. You said in the tutorial that mapping from 45 degrees wasn’t available. Couldn’t you use an empty rotated 45 degrees and the “object” mapping input.

:o Right, I never tought of it, it could be useful.

Well, I see I can’t explain myself good enough in english to show what I mean, so I think I’m going to update the Aniax tutorial with images to explain these topics and the RVK texture trick.

Env

I have an RVK texture trick too,…for UV mapping, you set a base key, then smooth, or otherwise manipulate your mesh, set key2 and map ‘from window’. Then move the key out of the speed curve influence, make a new one for a different part of the mesh and repeat. great for taming those stretchy UVs.

Mm… Modron, I didn’t understand. :expressionless:

Env

Hey env, for the top and bottom mapping, are you just using the same map on both? So, if I wanted to make the bottom of my raptor’s body light, and the top dark, I would have to do it slightly different and spilt those into two materials, correct. If I’m not being clear enough, I’ll try again.

Correct. But, for example, you could use the same bump map and split only the color map (but it’s better to have different bump maps too).

Env