Pablo Dobarro's master plan for sculpting and painting, development news

We need direct manipulation of the gizmo/pivot like in zbrush.

The workarounds in blender are just insane.

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Honestly this is one of the things I probably hate most about Blender. I would love for them to rehash the whole gizmo-pivot-snapping system to be smarter and with less steps involved. Instead of make it strictly about the sculpting workflow, I’d rather it apply to Blender as a whole.

The vid/gif you show is a great example of what Blender should be aiming for. Easy movement of the gizmo itself in 3D space as part of the native gizmo behavior, not being anchored to a 3D cursor or any of that. In fact the zbrush approach mixed in with Modo’s widget behavior in 3D space would be perfect.

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I agree 100%. And that’s what I tried to suggest on devtalk, but it’s nearly impossible to convince some blender folks, they think that working with the 3d cursor is the same thing. Pity.

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For the curious ones, ZBrush 2020 is coming soon, with some interesting stuff. :wink:

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Its something like “manipulator edit mode” in silo. Transformations are applied to the gizmo instead of the selection.

3D cursor (and snap alignment) was a big step forward. Rotate/Move/Scale with cursor pivot could do similar transformations.
Cursor alignment could be changed via snapping. But cursor cant be translated directly.

More flexibility to transform cursor
and
use cursor pivot to transform selection
could do the job.

“Some interesting stuff” is a very good recapitulation. :slightly_smiling_face: I am once again not very impressed with the new features.

If you’d like to discuss the new ZBrush, you’re invited to my thread about it.

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Just like I said.

Look, what we are talking about here and what I showed on that gif is 100% unrelated to the 3d cursor. I don’t get why it’s so difficult to understand that.

We are not looking for workarounds.

The 3D Cursor reliant workflow is largely part of the problem to begin with. It adds too many extra unnecessary steps and something I think, like Blender Internal, messy keymap and the Game Engine needs to be retired in favor of something far better.

If they had to keep in it some form, I’d rather it just turn into a workplane instead.

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Nah, you dont need to tell me how to think. I think different :wink:
You can do similar transformations with the cursor. Of course its not related to the gif, ZBrush does not have 3D-Cursor. (Something which works just like silo’s manipulator edit mode.)

Rather I would suggest to look at both. A way to transform gizmo without transforming objects (manipulator edit mode). And a way to store such transformations to a cursor. So you can store and recall a pivot without “unnecessary steps”.

Thats what Im thinking about. Z-Brush doesnt have cursor. Its no reason to reject to think more in-depth about how to use cursor.

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I’m not telling you how to think, I’m just trying to clarify what this feature is all about, and that any mention of the 3d cursor is non-sensical and goes 100% against what we are talking about here.
Using the 3d cursor is a bad workaround, and that’s not what we are after.
If you love the 3d cursor, fine, but keep it where it belongs, let’s not mix unrelated things.

Its ok if you dont like my last thoughts. For me it looks like you just reject what I wrote about cursor. I can live with it.

This way of argumenting leads nowhere. Its frustrating for me, and probably for you too. I like to cut it.

I just use ‘G’ to grab objects, so the only people who might really need the transform of the widget graphic are people who just refuse to use even the most basic and easy-to-use hotkeys (even after gaining experience).

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Yeah, but he just wants to position the pivot point arbitrarily. You can do that with the cursor, but it’s not comfortable. I have no idea why to this day we can’t have a little cursor gizmo to move it around and snap to stuff.

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The problem with the cursor is to use it as a piviot you need to change the piviot to the cursor which is tucked away in a menu and then restore it back from a menu . Perhaps a suitable sulotion would be to make the 3d cursor clickable And when you click on it you get 2 icons that will appears neer it to set or restore the piviot to it and back the icon will also appear when you move it

I personally think Maya did that approach best, where the transform widget/pivot is tied to the origin, and you simply press a button to unlock it in order to move it around as you see fit before locking it again by pressing the key again. It worked great for snapping and relocating the thing. If I recall correctly you could also have it act that way in a temporary form, with the origin never losing its original position. Very simple.

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Yeah, works pretty much the same in Max.

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Exactly how it works in c4d too. In fact, I think blender is the only 3d app that can’t do that. :thinking:

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I wonder why don’t we have something simple as this :thinking:

Mind you I don’t really use tool versions of grab / rotate / scale and rely on hotkeys so it might be not very good idea. Still, being able to move 3d cursor without changing modes / tools with overlay versions of gizmos would be very fast.

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I think that is continuing misunderstanding to formulate it as is.
They want to offset pivot of transformation from its current position. And then, to preserve same offset at each transformation.

Nobody wants to use 3D cursor as pivot point as it is currently and have to reposition 3DCursor at each transformation.
3D cursor as transform pivot is something that I try to avoid as much as possible.
I use it to scale, rotate or reposition a selection of objects.
But here, case exposed is more close to repositioning origin in Object mode or to use Active Element as pivot in Edit mode.
But clearly, avoiding to mess-up origin position or to do extra click to define an active element will correspond to a gain in terms of simplicity and speed.
I never use 3D Cursor as pivot of transformation if I want to use a gizmo.

3D Cursor is really useful for object creation, object snapping and center of transformation that don’t have gizmos (like bend or sphere).
But if Blender does a logical move to more gizmos, it seems legitimate to adopt a way to offset pivot of transformation without need of a key press. That is the case for Spin gizmo that is reusing Move gizmo arrows.
Of course, we cannot have a Move gizmo with 2 sets of arrows (that would be ridiculous).
3D cursor could be useful to indicate position of an offset pivot of transformation.

But 3D Cursor should not be seen as necessary involved into a notion of pivot shifted relatively to center of selection bounding box.
We don’t need to touch 3D Cursor at all to create a new type of pivot called Offset.
We could have same lock icon to switch from an actual pivot to this hypothetical new type of pivot.

Objects origin is used for many things in Blender (eg texture coordinates, modifiers’ pivoting etc.). Screwing it for transform purpose sounds dangerous. Even if it’s a temporary thing, how should Blender react to the change?